Latest podcast episodes
Episode 189: What to Expect When You’re Expecting a Business
What to Expect When You’re Expecting a Business
TIME TO LISTEN: 47:20

This week, Paul Downs, Jennifer Kerhin, and Liz Picarazzi discuss the challenges couples face when one spouse is building a business. Liz says it was important to let her husband know that she spent years working on a business plan before leaving her corporate job to start her first business. Paul explains why, when times have been tough, he hasn’t always shared the bad news with his wife. And Jennifer says too many couples planning for one spouse to start a business focus on best-case scenarios rather than the more likely worst-case scenarios. She also suggests some important questions for couples to ask themselves, including this one: “Will she still have faith in him if the business fails?” Plus: Businesses fail all the time, of course, and Paul explains why he thinks it’s usually for one of three reasons. And four years after the pandemic arrived, we take a look back: What was each owner’s toughest moment? What was their best decision? How have their business models changed?

I Need a Business Model
TIME TO LISTEN: 47:05

This week, we offer you a taste of the 21 Hats Live event we held in Fort Worth two weeks ago. It’s a different kind of event where there are no speakers, only participants. It’s pretty much a three-day, peer-group session for business owners, where we share challenges and insights and make connections. There were 25 of us, including most of our podcast regulars.

For me, the highlight was an exercise that Chris Hutchinson of the Trebuchet Group facilitates. He calls it a “Fish Bowl” because the idea is to have an owner stand up and expose everything about a specific challenge that he or she is confronting. Fortunately, we had one owner who was gracious enough to agree to reveal all, to answer any question. And that owner was, well, it was me, actually. The truth is, this was a priceless opportunity for me to get some feedback from a focus group of smart entrepreneurs who were already familiar with 21 Hats.

It even got a little emotional, mostly because a couple of the owners were kind enough to say that, had it not been for 21 Hats, their businesses might not have survived the pandemic. That was moving to hear, to say the least, but of course, that alone doesn’t mean 21 Hats has a sustainable business model. We recorded the whole thing, and if you have any thoughts after listening to it, please send them my way.

Man, I’m Glad We Didn’t Do an ESOP
TIME TO LISTEN: 53:38

This week, Matt Hoying, president of Choice One Engineering, explains to Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz how he created a DIY employee-ownership plan for his firm. Some 10 years ago, Matt’s predecessor as president tasked him with selecting an ownership structure that would engage employees and help Choice One be as successful as possible. That sent Matt on a mission of discovery in which he researched the pluses and minuses of every structure he could find—including employee stock ownership plans—before ultimately creating his own structure. Matt’s plan doesn’t enjoy the tax advantages of an ESOP, but it’s open even to part-timers, and it requires employees who want to be owners to make a financial investment in the business. In other words, they aren’t given ownership; they have to buy into it. Shawn and Jay quiz Matt on the choices he made and how the plan has worked out.

Can Jimmy Beans Wool Sell Yarn on LinkedIn?
TIME TO LISTEN: 46:27

This week, Shawn Busse and Laura Zander discuss what exactly Laura’s job should be. She’s CEO, of course, and she’s been focused on acquisitions and growing the business, but she’s never really found someone to take over the big role she used to play, which leads to these questions: Should she go back to being her own chief marketing officer? Or does she need to go out and spend real money to hire one? And then, toward the end of the conversation, Laura actually devises a plan on the spot to sell yarn in a surprising and creative way, which perhaps answers the very question we’d been discussing. Plus: Shawn explains how having the right partner can make a business in the beginning and break it over time as he celebrates having made his final payout to his own former partner.

Managing Your Tasks, Your Credit Cards, and Your Anxiety
TIME TO LISTEN: 40:10

This week, Jay Goltz, Jaci Russo, and Sarah Segal talk about whether it’s finally time for Jay to enter the brave new world of task-management software. That’s, in fact, what his two kids in the business are encouraging him to do. As it happens, Jaci and Sarah have tried most of the project-management tools out there—Monday, Basecamp, Asana—and they kind of love them, but with one caveat: They can be a lot of work. Which is all Jay needed to hear. After that, we talk about the challenges of managing credit cards and points, and Jay explains why, after 40 years, American Express is no longer what’s in his wallet. Plus: the owners tackle a question posed by an entrepreneur with a very new startup: “When does the anxiety of a new business subside?” asks the newbie, which prompts some laughter and this answer: The anxiety subsides in the 42nd year, says Jay, who’s been running his business for 42 years.

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That Would Put Me Out of Business
TIME TO LISTEN: 53:17

This week, Mel Gravely, Liz Picarazzi, and Jaci Russo talk about how they set prices. Jaci explains why she refuses to respond to requests for proposals. “We have not participated in a single RFP in 15 years,” she says, “and we won’t under my watch.” Mel explains how his construction company manages to get work despite always being among the highest-priced bidders (which is why he never gets government jobs). And Liz tells us what happened when she was forced to raise prices because of the tariffs placed on goods manufactured in China. But first, she tells us what she’s thinking now that there’s a possibility those tariffs could go to 60 percent. Plus: We review how the three owners handle employee reviews.

‘I Had to Fire the Guy’
TIME TO LISTEN: 49:53

This week, Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and Sarah Segal talk about sexual harassment and where you draw the line with employees. Is it sexual harassment for one employee to ask another for a date? Is it sexual harassment to ask twice? Does it make sense to have a policy of zero tolerance? Or is it better to leave room for discretion and judgment? The conversation was sparked by a recent situation Jay experienced with an employee who had been with the company for almost three decades, having started at the age of 17. “It was a very sad thing,” Jay tells us.

Plus: Sarah Segal asks whether it’s better to build her business on a bunch of small clients or a smaller number of large clients. And is being CEO a health risk? We begin the episode by talking about an eye-catching story the Wall Street Journal recently published noting that an increasing number of CEOs have been dying on the job, presumably because of the heightened levels of stress. I asked the three CEOs on the episode if they’ve been taking care of themselves—but they weren’t having it. Instead of thanking me for my concern, they chided me for highlighting an article they consider complete BS. Which, of course, is what we love about these guys. They call ‘em the way they see ‘em.

Why Would You Want to Own a Business?
TIME TO LISTEN: 42:23

This week, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and Jennifer Kerhin respond to a somewhat depressing view of business ownership offered by an investor who buys businesses for a living. That view, essentially, is that for most owners, building a business is a daily knife fight of long hours, unexpected risks, slow growth, and meager returns. In this episode, I read most of the investor’s observations to Shawn, Jay, and Jennifer, and get their reactions, which hit upon a bunch of issues that are not widely understood—including how fast growth can destroy a business, how even a profitable company can go bust, and why a good metric to assess the health of a small business might be how many people have been crying in the bathroom this year. While Shawn, Jay, and Jennifer disagree vehemently with a few of the investor’s assertions—”Kiss my ass!” says Jay in response to one—they do acknowledge that he makes a lot of good points, which leads to an obvious question: Why would anyone do this? Why would anyone subject themselves to this kind of life? As you might expect, Shawn, Jennifer, and Jay have a response to that as well.

Have We Been Too Generous With Employees?
TIME TO LISTEN: 50:00

This week, Mel Gravely, Jaci Russo, and William Vanderbloemen talk about the possibility that, after several years of the Great Resignation and the labor shortage, some owners may have given away the store. We all know the risks of not offering employees enough. What are the risks of offering too much? How do you even know when you’ve crossed the line? The owners also discuss why this might be a good time to consider acquiring other businesses. “I think this is a time to double-down,” says Mel. And Jaci explains how she and her team are reviewing everything the company does to see if AI can be employed to improve each and every process. Oh, and one last thing: How exactly, in this day and age, are business owners supposed to keep track of all of the subscriptions—and all of the subscription log-ins—that they and their employees have acquired through the years? How much money are they spending on stuff they no longer use? “Thanks a lot,” responds Mel. “I’m starting to sweat.”

We’re Making Good Money. I’m Not Sure How.
TIME TO LISTEN: 48:56

This week, Jay Goltz, Jennifer Kerhin, and Liz Picarazzi discuss their efforts to get a better grasp of what drives their profits. They ask how much of their finances they should manage themselves. And how much should they rely on an accountant or a fractional CFO? When does delegation become abdication? Jennifer says she’s benefitted from hiring a fractional CFO who has taken an active leadership role, including setting up a database that helps Jennifer see in real time whether the fees she’s charging cover the labor she’s deploying. “Whatever she's charging me,” says Jennifer of her CFO, “it's absolutely worth it.” Liz, meanwhile, thinks she should be doing more herself. And Jay says he was paying big bucks for a full-time CFO until late last year. “And it was a complete waste of money,” he says, which is why he’s decided not to replace her. Plus: Liz reveals her secret strategy for marketing directly to municipal government officials, some of whom have started to use the term “Citibin” generically. And the owners respond to a question from the head of a cost-reduction service who wonders why she’s struggling so much to get business owners to try her risk-free service.

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