I Need a Business Model

Introduction:

This week, we offer you a taste of the 21 Hats Live event we held in Fort Worth two weeks ago. It’s a different kind of event where there are no speakers, only participants. It’s pretty much a three-day, peer-group session for business owners, where we share challenges and insights and make connections. There were 25 of us, including most of our podcast regulars.

For me, the highlight was an exercise that Chris Hutchinson of the Trebuchet Group facilitates. He calls it a “Fish Bowl” because the idea is to have an owner stand up and expose everything about a specific challenge that he or she is confronting. Fortunately, we had one owner who was gracious enough to agree to reveal all, to answer any question. And that owner was, well, it was me, actually. The truth is, this was a priceless opportunity for me to get some feedback from a focus group of smart entrepreneurs who were already familiar with 21 Hats.

It even got a little emotional, mostly because a couple of the owners were kind enough to say that, had it not been for 21 Hats, their businesses might not have survived the pandemic. That was moving to hear, to say the least, but of course, that alone doesn’t mean 21 Hats has a sustainable business model. We recorded the whole thing, and if you have any thoughts after listening to it, please send them my way.

— Loren Feldman

Producer:

Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word.

Sound engineer:

Blake Sessions, Content Capital.

Full Episode Transcript:

Chris Hutchinson:
I’m Chris Hutchinson from the Trebuchet Group, and I’m glad to be here, helping facilitate this amazing amount of knowledge, wisdom, and care. So Loren, tell us about your challenge or problem in a nutshell. You know, what are we doing here?

Loren Feldman:
My challenge is to meet more people and rope in more people like the people in this room. I’ve been doing this for about three years now, trying to build a community of business owners who compare notes, who share their wins and losses, who learn from each other. And I’ve been making some progress, although my growth has kind of plateaued over the last year. And I need to figure out a real business model, which I have not successfully done yet. I’ve been experimenting with a couple of revenue streams, but I don’t have a sustainable business model as of yet. That’s what I’m looking for.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, so you notice the last thing you said was really the most important, right? A “sustainable business model” is what I hear is the challenge. So let’s go ahead and put that down. What’s working right now in your model?

Loren Feldman:
Well, from a financial standpoint, not much. But I get great feedback and support from people like the people in this room who I think are getting something out of what I’m doing, which is: a daily email newsletter that summarizes the most important news of the day for business owners, a weekly podcast that is a peer group conversation with a group of business owners talking about what’s going on in their businesses, a monthly Zoom call, and this is the second live event that we’ve done. And I hope to do a lot more, assuming these people are having a good time and getting something out of it.

Chris Hutchinson:
So how do these things connect to your sustainable business model?

Loren Feldman:
They’re all related, in the sense that they’re all building a community. They’re all ways that business owners are coming together to compare notes, share their experiences, and learn from each other.

Chris Hutchinson:
So helping build that community that you want to have. What’s not working right now in your sustainable business model?

Loren Feldman:
I’m not making enough money to pay my bills without the fact that I have a wife who has a real job.

Chris Hutchinson:
So if you’re hearing the scritchy scratch, and you’re not hearing me, I’m writing things down. So in terms of the “not making enough money,” what would be enough?

Loren Feldman:
Well, I guess I have a series of goals. The first goal might be to make as much money as I used to make as an employed journalist. But that would mean that I’m still a one-man show. I would love for this to grow beyond that and to be able to hire a few people who would help me do what I do, allow me to stop working seven days a week, and work on the business, instead of in the business, and do some things that I used to do when I had a big media company supporting me but that I haven’t been able to do as a one-person operation.

Chris Hutchinson:
What kinds of things, for instance?

Loren Feldman:
Well, when I was at Forbes, I brought Bo Burlingham over from Inc, where he had written the book, Small Giants, and we created an annual Forbes Small Giants list, where we listed 20 small businesses of the year. It was an application process. We picked really cool businesses. We had an event where they came together, and it was kind of building a community there.

Unfortunately, Forbes didn’t find it as interesting as I did. But it was successful, in the sense that when we first started, of course, nobody had heard of it. So we had to go find these companies. By the fourth year we did it, we had hundreds of applications. People really cared about it. And it brought in like $4 million a year in revenue for Forbes.

Chris Hutchinson:
That would be okay. Four million dollars in revenue would be okay for you?

Loren Feldman:
I’m not assuming that—I mean, Forbes had something to do with that. So I’m not expecting to be able to do that myself. But, yeah, that would be okay.

Chris Hutchinson:
That would be okay. Is there any last thing that you can think of before we get the questions from our biggest group of business owners here that it would be good for them to know to help ask you the right kind of questions?

Loren Feldman:
You know what, I trust these folks. I’m eager to hear whatever questions they have.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, great. So go ahead and write some questions down. And then go to the mic, say your name and the company, and then share your questions. So we’re gonna encourage you to ask open-ended questions that help us all think, especially Loren, about what’s happening and what are the factors that are going to be able to help him be more successful in having a sustainable business model. So how about we’ll go over here first.

Jennifer Kerhin:
Hi, it’s Jennifer, from SB Expos & Events. Loren, my question is: What are your current streams of revenue now?

Loren Feldman:
On the podcast, I have a sponsor, the Great Game of Business. And they pay me a monthly fee. I completed a one-year contract, and we’re on the second year now. With the newsletter, I’ve never put up a paywall. But that’s something that I’m considering. I did a couple years ago ask people to pay on a voluntary basis, and out of about 6,500 subscribers, I got about 100 people who did start paying me. They pay me either a monthly fee, or an annual fee for the newsletter, and about 30 also pay me to be part of a monthly forum, a Zoom call, where we just talk about what’s going on in everybody’s business. So those are the revenue streams at the moment.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, thanks, Jennifer. Next question.

Kurt Wilkin:
Kurt Wilkin with HireBetter. My question is, in what ways have you leveraged this group? You’ve got quite a few folks who really love you and appreciate what you’ve done for them and their careers.

Loren Feldman:
How have I leveraged this group? You know, I wouldn’t say I’ve been terribly successful at doing that, except that you guys are all successful, influential people. And I have periodically asked everybody to spread the word as best they can. And a lot of you have managed to do that. I know word of mouth is my best marketing, and when other entrepreneurs hear from folks like the people in this room that the podcast or the newsletter has been valuable, that’s tremendously helpful to me. So it’s happened a little bit informally. Probably, I haven’t done as much with that as I should.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, great. Thanks. Next.

Sarah Segal:
Sarah Segal with Segal Communications. Loren, when a lot of aspiring actors go to L.A. or New York, they give themselves two years to be successful, or they pack it in and get a real job. What’s your plan?

Loren Feldman:
Well, in some ways, I consider myself fortunate, being a slightly older than usual entrepreneur. I have two kids. They’re both out of college. The tuitions are paid for. My mortgage is paid for. So I don’t have the immediate fear that if this doesn’t work, I’m gonna be lost. So I have not set a deadline date. It’s kind of how long I enjoy doing this and how long I go on feeling as though this is a worthwhile enterprise that has some prospect of succeeding. I don’t know what the exact timeframe for that would be.

Chris Hutchinson:
Thanks. Next question.

Paul Downs:
Paul Downs, Paul Downs Cabinetmakers. Loren, what distribution channels are you using? And which of those platforms is most likely to result in rapid growth?

Loren Feldman:
Are you talking about social media?

Paul Downs:
Well, yeah, like here we are doing a podcast. Is it also gonna be on YouTube? Is it, whatever, how does the content go out?

Loren Feldman:
The newsletter is on Substack, and Substack is actually very helpful, in terms of spreading the word. They have a huge audience. They do their best to get people to recommend the other Substacks, and I’ve benefited from that. With the podcast, we post it on a platform called Spreaker that nobody’s ever heard of, but it’s distributed, through Spreaker, to all the places that you have heard of. Not YouTube. We don’t do it in video. We just do audio. I do try to promote what we do on LinkedIn. I think, of all the social media channels, that’s the one that has an audience that makes sense for me. That’s probably it.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, thanks. Next question.

Ami Kassar 16:10
Hi, it’s Ami Kassar from MultiFunding. Loren, my friend, what is your greatest strength? And how does that translate into your greatest weakness?

Chris Hutchinson:
We’re getting personal here.

Loren Feldman:
I don’t know if I’m smart enough to answer the second part of that. I think my greatest strength is that I’ve been doing a version of what I’m doing now for more than 20 years. And, you know, a lot of journalists are not satisfied being on the small business beat. They are looking to move up the food chain. And if they’re working on the small business desk at The Wall Street Journal, or, even if they’re at Inc. magazine, their career goals often want to take them somewhere else.

I discovered this beat and kind of fell in love with it and decided to stick with it. And you know, you do something for 20 years, you’ve got to get a little bit better at it. And you start meeting people and making connections. And I don’t know if there’s anybody else who’s put this amount of time into covering this particular beat. So I feel like I know people, and I know things about these types of businesses that most journalists don’t know.

I worked with some of the smartest business journalists in the world at The New York Times, at Forbes, and even at Inc. And I can tell you, the percentage of them who realize that people like you routinely borrow against your homes to support your business—I mean, nobody knows that. That’s my biggest advantage. I think I know this beat in a way few people do. How does that translate into my biggest disadvantage? I would need some time to think about that. You might have a better answer to it than I do.

Chris Hutchinson:
Well, if somebody’s doing something for a very long time, and that’s what they know, how might that be a disadvantage?

Loren Feldman:
I guess it’s possible you start to take things for granted. Things become so familiar to you that you think everybody knows it, and you don’t realize what you know that others don’t. But I’m not sure I’ve gotten to that point yet.

Chris Hutchinson:
That’s great. Let’s see. Next question.

Shawn Busse:
Hi, Shawn Busse with Kinesis. Two-part question: How do you feel about sales? And how do you feel about self-promotion?

Loren Feldman:
Sales, if you had asked me that question before I started doing this, I would have told you: I can’t even imagine trying to do that. I’ve got to stay as far away from that as possible. What I found is that I feel I’ve done the best I’ve done, in terms of growing my audience by having direct conversations with people. I wouldn’t say I’m good at marketing, per se. But I am good at having a conversation, one-on-one or in a small group, where I talk about what I’m doing and why I think it matters. And I think I’m good at capturing the authenticity that comes through in the podcast and the newsletter. And because I would never be comfortable with a hard sell, I think that that has worked for me. What was the second part?

Chris Hutchinson:
Self-promotion.

Loren Feldman:
Self-promotion? You’re seeing it on display right now. I’m as uncomfortable as I could possibly be. Does that answer your question?

Chris Hutchinson:
Excellent. Next question, please.

Liz Picarazzi:
Liz Picarazzi, Citibin. So, Loren, I’m curious if you’ve ever considered monetizing your moderating skills or your storytelling discussion skills?

Loren Feldman:
I’ve considered it. I’ve had trouble getting other organizations that would pay the money to consider it. And it’s kind of an interesting challenge, in the sense that I’ve done a lot of that. I’ve done it at a lot of high-profile events for business owners. They usually don’t offer to pay me. I always ask, and then I’m left with the decision: “Well, it would be nice to get paid for doing this. I think I should get paid for doing this. But if they’re not going to pay me, I still get the opportunity to present what I do, and expose what I do, to a large audience of the kinds of people I’m trying to reach. So yeah, I’ll do it for nothing.” I haven’t figured out how to break out of that.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, thanks. Next question.

Michelle Wyatt:
Michelle Wyatt, St. Johns Rivership Co. Have you considered ways to segment your target audience?

Loren Feldman:
Oh, that’s a great question.

Chris Hutchinson:
Well, how segmented is your audience already?

Loren Feldman:
It’s not segmented. I’m looking for anybody who is trying to build a business and feels as though they would benefit from being part of a community and part of a conversation with other people on similar journeys. Honestly, I do worry that there’s a potential that I don’t go deep enough in any one particular area.

I remember, before I started 21 Hats, I had a conversation with a manufacturer who said to me—somebody who I covered and who had become something of a friend. I was telling him what my plans were. And he said, “I’ll be honest with you. You’re a friend of mine. I’m going to give it a shot. But what’s most valuable to me is being in a community with other manufacturers. That’s the support that I’m looking for. And if you’re creating a community of people with more general business concerns, I don’t know if that’s going to do it for me. I might put my time into just manufacturers.”

So, as a one-person operation, I haven’t figured out how to go deeper in certain areas. With a team, if I ever get to the point where I can hire that team, I would love to figure out a way to represent more of those 21 hats and go deeper in areas so that people like that friend of mine, who is not part of the community, would find enough here to have it be worth his time.

Chris Hutchinson:
What do we have?

Kurt Wilkin:
I’m going to phrase my question slightly differently.

Chris Hutchinson:
This is Kurt.

Kurt Wilkin:
Yes, this is Kurt Wilkin. And my question is going to start with, Loren, you’re a badass. The number of people that you’ve impacted over the years is in the thousands. The number of people I’ve met here this week is over 25 people who have had such an impact from you over the course of their careers. It’s phenomenal. So you’re making an absolute impact. I want you to know that. So part of that leads to my question, which is, how are you leveraging the folks in your sphere that are more perhaps influential: publishers, your experience at Inc. and Forbes, authors like Bo Burlingham or Doug Tatum, famous friends. How are you leveraging those folks?

Loren Feldman:
I’m not.

Chris Hutchinson:
Well, that was easy.

Kurt Wilkin:
I didn’t want a yes or no question, but okay.

Chris Hutchinson:
That’s a great idea. All right, please. Next question.

Justin Jordan:
Justin Jordan, Essential Ingredients. Loren, who are your competitors? And what are they doing very well that you would like to emulate or improve on?

Loren Feldman:
This gets back to what I was saying before about journalists not wanting to make a career on the small business beat and looking to move off it as quickly as possible. In part for that reason, I really don’t feel as though I have a lot of direct competitors. Now, I’ve been covering business owners long enough to know to be skeptical anytime somebody says, “I have no real competition.” So let me acknowledge that.

But I don’t think there’s anybody who’s quite putting two things together, which is the kind of peer-group community with the media aspect, the content aspect, of what I do. So my competitors include publications like Inc. or The Wall Street Journal, Entrepreneur magazine, on one side. And peer-group organizations like EO, YPO, Vistage on the other side.

I don’t think any of them quite put it all together the way I am trying to do here, specifically with the experience that I have, and the knowledge that I have of what you folks go through trying to build a business. So I think I do offer something that’s different. There are great organizations out there that are offering specific pieces of this, and they’re really good at it. I spent years at Inc. magazine. That’s where I was first exposed to this. It was a great experience for me. I learned a lot there, especially from Bo Burlingham. I met some of the people in this room there, which was really important to me. They’re capable of doing really great work, although I don’t think they’ve really figured out a digital strategy.

There are other organizations. I mean, Vistage is a fantastic organization. I think there are people in this room who have had tremendous experiences with Vistage. There are some people who’ve had less happy experiences, but they offer a great service. I can’t compete with that. I would love to at some point, but I certainly don’t now. I think that’s what I’ve got.

Chris Hutchinson:
That’s good. Another question, Michael.

Michael Russo:
Hi, Michael Russo with BrandRusso. It seems like with the rise right now of coaching in the world, and people seeking out answers, and there are so many books, there are so many things, there is a need for really clean differentiation with your audience. And do you have a brand promise? And if so, what is it? The question I would put that in is, “I am the only blank that does blank.” And have you defined that?

Loren Feldman:
I’m reluctant to say only, but my goal is to be the only media company that does a really good job offering both content and community in one place. That’s the goal. For a one-person shop, I think I’ve had some success with that. But there’s a long way to go.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, we have time for a few more questions.

Tricia Groff:
Hi, Loren, Dr. Tricia Groff, executive advisor. Could you tell us about how you determine your pricing model for events such as this and for the Mastermind?

Loren Feldman:
My monthly CEO forum. Actually, the way I did it was to talk to the CEO forum group and ask them for advice as to what they would be willing to pay and what they suggest I charge. When it came to the events, the advice I got from people in that particular Zoom call was: “You need to charge a real price, because for us, it’s not so much a matter of the money. It’s the time. And if we’re going to spend three days at an event, we want to know we’ll be with other people who are serious about this, somebody who is on a similar journey that I can learn from.”

Those people on that call told me that I should probably charge about $5,000. I didn’t quite have the nerve to do that. I cut that roughly in half. And it was interesting, because the three or four people who were most vocal, insisting that I charge $5,000 for an event that runs from Wednesday dinner through Friday lunch, none of them actually came when I scheduled the event. But that was the process that I went through to come up with a price. I cut it in half. I came up with a number that I was comfortable with. I ran it by a bunch of people. About half of them said they would not pay that, half of them said they would. So I gave it a shot, and happily, I was able to pretty much sell out the two events I’ve done so far.

Chris Hutchinson:
All right, so we’re really close to the place—I can feel it in the room—where people are like, “I know what I want to share. I want to see if that solution that I’m thinking of is really the right solution.” I can feel it. So I’m wondering, in the minute and a half we have left, if we have any other questions that really can help us understand the situation, rather than what maybe he has tried.

John Kelch:
John Kelch, Chisholm Security. Can you describe what your ideal audience is in your mind?

Loren Feldman:
It’s you guys. It’s business owners who are at any stage of the process, whether they’re getting started and trying to figure things out, or whether they’ve been doing it for decades, had a certain amount of success, and are looking to share some of what they’ve learned. One of the things I believe I’ve learned during the last couple of decades of talking to folks like you is that everybody’s journey is different. And I don’t know that there’s any one particular way to prepare yourself for that journey.

I think getting an MBA can be helpful, but it doesn’t really prepare you for what it takes to build a business. I think maybe the best preparation is to be number two on somebody else’s journey for a little while and see what they go through. But I think I’m looking for people who are on that journey and believe that the best way that they can open their mind to other options is by meeting with other people on similar journeys. And I’m hoping to bring them together.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay.

Dave Sterne:
Hi, I’m Dave Sterne with The Inside Track. And my question is, you mentioned earlier that you considered doing a paywall. I wanted to ask why you didn’t move forward with that thought. And then the other question is, out of the 100 people that have paid for this subscription to your newsletter, have you asked them what motivated them to voluntarily give you money?

Loren Feldman:
I have not thus far implemented the paywall because I didn’t want to restrict the growth. I wanted to make it as easy as possible for somebody to subscribe. Same thing with the podcast. I’m rethinking it a little bit because—I’m an idiot. Yes, that’s my phone. [Laughter]

Chris Hutchinson:
It’s a normal business-owner thing that things interrupt you all the time, so you’re good to go. Perfect.

Loren Feldman:
I’m rethinking it because my growth has plateaued anyway. I have, I think, a significant number of readers for the newsletter and people who download the podcast every month. And I’d like to think that if I put it behind the paywall now, I would get a much higher percentage than I got on a voluntary basis.

Yes, I have anecdotally asked people, and actually I really haven’t had to ask much. People often volunteer it. As recently as last night someone in this room told me that they weren’t sure their business would have made it through the pandemic if they hadn’t had the information in the newsletter every day that helped them figure out things, like how to get PPP money. So I think I know why people sign up when they do. I don’t know how many will sign up if I force them to pay, and that’s the big question.

Chris Hutchinson:
Beautiful. I would love to keep asking questions. And I know there’s an itch to say, “Let’s get this next step.” So we’re going to number off, really quickly, get into four groups, and in that group, it’s thinking out loud together about having a response. Again, we’ll just do those one at a time where it’ll be a caution, like, “Watch out for this. Here’s a success tip as you’re going. Here’s something that could really help you,” especially if you have experience around that. And then the next step is: What would be a good thing for Loren to do next on this journey? He shared where he is and where he wants to go, so we’re going to look for your advice on that.

Editor’s Note:
Okay, so at this point we did in fact break up into four small groups. Chris gave everyone 10 to 15 minutes to kick around ideas and formulate the advice that each group would present when we reconvened as a whole. And that’s where we pick up now with Chris.

Chris Hutchinson:
Are we ready to provide some input? Please get up in front of the microphones. We’re gonna do one group at a time. Come on up and share your advice, which is going to be a caution, a next step, or a success tip.

Nawal Motawi:
Hi, I’m Nawal Motawi from Motawi Tileworks. Our big success tip is: Get paid. Do the paywall, and get paid for your moderation. We think you undervalue what you bring. The second thing is, one of the strengths you have is your curiosity and literally your personality and how that displays, and we feel like actually a visual YouTube is something you should consider, because you would come through.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, so the things we got is, get paid for paywall and moderation. And consider a visual medium, because you’d come across.

Loren Feldman:
Am I supposed to respond to these?

Chris Hutchinson:
You don’t need to.

Loren Feldman:
Good.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, yeah. At the end, you can say here’s what I’m going to do about them, because the best thing to do when you’re given advice is just say: thank you.

Loren Feldman:
That’s what I did.

Chris Hutchinson:
You did. All right, next.

Shawn Busse:
Shawn Busse with Kinesis representing group four. We were universal. We all believe it’s a sales problem, and that fundamentally, your superpower, which is editorial and research and digging—you’re not dedicating enough time to sales, and we actually think you need help with that. That’s our advice. Bring somebody in from the outside.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Well done. Next.

Michelle Wyatt:
We would echo the sales issue. We were suggesting that you hire a salesperson on commission only, where they get paid when they are successful in monetizing your content and helping you monetize. We also think that you might need to look at similar models to yours. For example, Verne Harnish with Gazelles.

Paul Downs:
I have some further thoughts. It’s amazing to me that, Loren, you’ve been in this space for 22 years, and you still see yourself as merely a facilitator of people talking to each other. Whereas you actually have expertise, deep expertise, in what it takes to run a business. And your content, both in the podcast and website, they don’t really reflect that. You’re always deferring to somebody else. And unfortunately, that’s not a very efficient way for people to get interested in you and your operation.

So one thing I thought of was that, when we do the podcast, if someone listens to the whole thing, they’re gonna get something out of it. But what you never do is, “Here’s the lessons for today,” inserting yourself into the process, not merely as an editor.

You could wrap up the podcast with: Here’s several other episodes we did on the same thing. Here’s some resources. In other words, start to become a more easily accessible and efficient resource for people who need the information you’ve got to get it in a different, more digestible format. I think sales is a problem. But I think that part of it is also that your offering has got a unique configuration that is not easy for people to easily digest.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you, I think you’re absolutely right. I’m much more comfortable doing it this way than the way you’re describing, because I’ve spent 22 years talking to business owners. It’s not the same thing as 22 years building a business. And when I have conversations with folks like you guys who have been in the thick of building a business for an extended period of time, I am always reminded how much I still have to learn.

Paul Downs:
Loren, you’re struggling to build a business right now.

Loren Feldman:
And if I succeed, I may one day be able to do what you’re suggesting I do. I’m not rejecting your advice. I appreciate it. I’m going to give it a lot more thought. But I just wanted to respond that you’ve described it very accurately. It is how I feel. And I’m going to think about it.

Chris Hutchinson:
All right, thanks. Next piece of advice.

Kurt Wilkin:
Kurt Wilkin, representing group three. I’m going to lead with an example. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and the biggest salesperson for them is often them. No one can tell their story better than them. No one has the same passion that they do. Someone once gave me the advice when I wrote my book to get me out there and be more comfortable about something I was uncomfortable with, which was being a self-promoter, which was, “Kurt, fake it till you feel it.”

I’m gonna repeat what I said before: You’re a badass. And you need to fake that till you feel it. And when they said that you need sales, which is absolutely true, we’re going to take it a step further and say promotion—somebody that’s a promoter, maybe someone to partner with you to be a promoter for Loren, Loren’s mouthpiece, his advocate.

And, as I said before, there are people who you’ve met in the past that are big fans of yours who you could leverage. We had an idea of: Could you leverage the Small Giant name and have the Small Giant awards again? So things like that. You’re a connector. Connect them for your purpose, as opposed to other people’s purpose, for a change.

Chris Hutchinson:
Great, thanks.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Next.

Michael Russo:
Michael Russo again. I’m with group one. The more I think about this, it’s like you really need some deep thought into this and really get some advisors and experts, whether it’s hiring or just really picking people’s brains, to come up with a plan that’s significant. Because I think there’s so many ideas. Everybody here is excited about you, and what you provide.

When I asked you, “I’m the only blank that does blank,” that’s a really deep question. And for us at our agency, it’s important, because we want to get to the root of what you do that’s special. And just quickly, it was, “I’m the only business moderator or community builder that has,” what you just said, “20 years of speaking to other businesses.” That is something unique, and that is something to build upon. And your advice is valuable. And so we talked about the YouTube thing, being the expert in the room, being that thought leader, and building on that and leveraging your base here with that plan. I think there are so many opportunities.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, we have time for a couple more. Go ahead.

Liz Picarazzi:
Liz Picarazzi, Citibin. So Loren, I pitched you an idea for getting sales in a particular area a little while back. We talked a little bit about it, and it was to get some sort of facilitation or moderating event that you can sell to EOs and any sort of networking group like that. And I think that if you were to present a group like that with, like, an evening with Loren Feldman, or something where you are facilitating a conversation that people can watch, that’s worth a lot. And I’ll tell you why. People like us who do EO, you pay $8,000 a year, all 200 of us at the New York City Chapter. They have a gigantic budget for learning events that almost never gets fully spent. And I know this, because I’ve kind of dug around a little bit.

If I could vote in my EO who I would bring in as a learning-event person, it would be you. And there could be, like, hundreds of chapters would feel the same way. They’re gonna just keep writing you checks, because they know they need what you have.

I get emotional about this for some reason, but I think it’s, like, we’re not the people that have the checkbook to pay you for what you do. But an EO, or any of these, you just get out there with what you do. You’ve got a huge audience, is what I’m saying, and they have huge budgets, even more importantly. Like, line items, everywhere, learning events. You just go in and grab it.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you so much for that. One question: When you’re describing this as an evening with Loren Feldman, are you literally suggesting that I would be the speaker and talking about my experience or facilitating a conversation?

Liz Picarazzi:
You would facilitate a conversation about something that the chapter found interesting that was based on actual expertise. So not talking about you and your career—that is very interesting, but I wouldn’t pay for that, actually.

Loren Feldman:
Neither would I.

Liz Picarazzi:
I would like you to facilitate really great discussions, and I want to be in the audience. And I know that everyone else will want to be there, because a lot of the events suck. I would say at least 50 percent of the events I go to really suck. And that’s why every time I’m at one of those EO events, I think, “Loren should do this instead. I’d rather have something like that.” And I don’t think I’m alone. You’ve got a very specific skill set—that people have money that they’re waiting to spend. I’m serious.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you, Liz.

Chris Hutchinson:
Nice advocacy. We have one more thought. And then we’ll wrap and see which of these activities that Loren would be willing to commit to in front of us and make it work.

Kurt Wilkin:
Kurt Wilkin again. I echo Liz’s statement about EO and YPO and other organizations like that. You can pull together their members and you facilitate the discussion. Our other specific suggestion is that could we white label your content for trade associations, associations, universities, YPO, EO, other groups. White label it so it’s their content, for a hefty fee.

Loren Feldman:
I think that’s a great suggestion. Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Okay, Loren, how are you feeling with the group here?

Loren Feldman:
I feel great. I know that these folks are putting a lot of thought into this, and I couldn’t appreciate it more.

Chris Hutchinson:
All right, so we’ll have you go over with the red marker and outline which one or two—maybe three, but I don’t want to saddle you with too much—so you can see what you can commit to.

Loren Feldman:
Commit?

Chris Hutchinson:
Well, commit to doing, exploring. Exploring. Commit to exploring.

Loren Feldman:
Commit to exploring. That I can do.

Chris Hutchinson:
I mean, if you can commit all the way to do it, that’d be perfect.

Loren Feldman:
Do you want to read them as I underline them?

Chris Hutchinson:
I will read them. Yeah, so Loren is accepting—let’s see how much you commit to—getting paid, the paywall or moderation. Not paid in moderation, paid for moderation. Get help with the sales problem.

All right, get advisors and create a plan, which is part of that help. Okay, so here we go. The marker is capped. We have, sell moderation to EO, etc., which goes along with that passionate expression by Liz. White label the content, get paid, and get help. So when are you going to come tell us about that, the progress you’ll be making on that, Loren?

Loren Feldman:
Well, I’m going to enlist the help of the people in this room before I actually do it and pursue some of these conversations a little bit further. So some of these people will hear from me before I do anything. I’m going to give this a lot of thought. And I’m going to try to put myself in a place where, when we gather again next year, I will be able to report back that I have actually done most of what I’ve committed to trying to do.

Chris Hutchinson:
If that’s all the commitment we’ve got, we can get it. I know everybody here is going to be excited about it and everybody listening is going to be wanting to support you and helping you help us.

Loren Feldman:
And I just want to say, I so appreciate this. I will point out one thing. I’ve acknowledged that I don’t have a real business model. But let’s please note that I’ve actually managed to get a bunch of people to pay to come here and give me advice. [Laughter] So I’m not completely without thoughts about a business model. Okay? But mostly, I just want to thank you.

Editor’s Note: And then, just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in again to offer more advice, and the session continued.

John Kelch:
A few thoughts, John Kelch. One, I don’t think you’re asking directly enough to support you. You know, at the end of your podcasts, you’ve got a little blurb, “If you’ve gotten anything out of this, here’s how you can…” I would just get rid of that—and more directly ask for people to support you. I know of another podcast, and they’ve grown like crazy in the last few years. I gladly pay them $20 a month, and the reason I do that is the way they asked me to do it. So I think that you have a valuable audience, and you’re just not quite monetizing it enough. You’re not being direct enough about the ask.

The other thing is tiers. So I think you can have different tiers of offerings. So for five bucks a month, you get very minimal. For $20 a month, maybe you get access to your mastermind group, or whatever those might look like. So I think there’s differentiation where you can increase how much folks are paying you. So cool.

Loren Feldman:
Thank you. Paul?

Paul Downs:
Paul Downs. You remind me of a classic problem that I’ve seen a million times, which is someone who’s a superb craftsman and wants to do great work and is horrified at the idea of actually promoting yourself. And in today’s world, that’s not a winning approach, that in order to really accomplish what you want, to build communities, you have to push yourself out there a little bit.

And this goes back to another basic business principle, which is, you don’t succeed by doing more of what you’re good at when what you need is to get better at what you’re bad at. And that can be you doing it or somebody else doing the thing you’re no good at, but you really have to get your head around self-promoting, being an expert, putting out a book like you heard suggested a second ago. That would be an awesome thing.

People are dying to get access to what you know. And you’re just afraid to have it pass out as a Loren Feldman production or product. And you’re always trying to push it down to people who are contributing as authentic, which it is, but there’s also value in packaging and in presentation that will give you, at the end of the day, a larger amount of community, if you can get your head around improving the thing you’re not doing well. There you go.

Loren Feldman:
I hear you. Thank you.

Chris Hutchinson:
Actually, this is a set-up. It’s an intervention. [Laughter] We’re all here to help you get your needs out into the world.

Loren Feldman:
Consider me intervened.

Michelle Wyatt:
So I believe that if you can segment your audience a lot better, it will actually grow. So for example, you mentioned the industry, but I also think geography, number of years that they’ve been an entrepreneur, the size of their company, and whether or not they’re a founder or a leader. So if you can segment further, not only would it help you target content better, but you can find sponsors for that specific area or that specific industry or that specific target.

For example, I’ll pick on Barbara [Taylor]. If someone has been an entrepreneur for 20-plus years, that would be an awesome target for her to start talking about an exit strategy. She might want to say to you, “Hey, I would love to write an article targeting these people, and then be able to contribute better and then segment the audience better.”

And then if and when you get to the point where you do multiple conferences across the country, and you decide to come to lovely Florida, then you can segment and target the people who live in Florida and really push for them to come to your events. So there’s a lot of advantages to doing better segmentation. And that information is free. You can ask for it when people sign up for the newsletter. And it’s valuable to you. It may not be money, but it will be valuable for you to help promote to other sponsors what you’ll do, or to promote your future events, what you’ll do to those targeted industries or audiences for you as well.

Loren Feldman:
There’s a lot of great advice there. Thank you. I have to think about this. I don’t know how much of this is reality, and how much of it is just an excuse, but I am working seven days a week now. And I feel as though my time is best spent doing things that I know how to do and getting to a certain point. Okay, one more.

Dave Sterne:
Well, I’m anonymous. You mentioned that someone told you that 21 Hats had—sorry. You mentioned that someone told you that 21 Hats had gotten them through the pandemic. Sorry, I didn’t expect this. Please cut. [Laughter]

Loren Feldman:
I can cut it later, but thank you.

Dave Sterne:
Anyway, sorry, give me a second. I’m one of those people that you and your panel have gotten through the pandemic. So you know, fast forward: I’m able to have a job that I love, and I’ve had for many years—and also, you know, employ nine people. This is so embarrassing. I wanted to thank John for that suggestion, and I’m going to give—excuse me—$2,500 to the 21 Hats foundation, or whatever you want to call it, because you obviously need some—we’re all business owners. We need finances to keep us going.

So whether it’s to invest in a salesperson, or writing a book, or anything else, I mean, it’s such an easy decision. And you’re going to accept it, because I’m not going to take it back. And it’s recorded. But John, thank you for that suggestion. And sorry for taking the mic, but I just couldn’t not sit here and think about all the people, the panelists, who help people, just everyday folks that they’ve never met, to get through the pandemic. And one of the reasons I wanted to come here is just to thank those people in person. It was great to meet him. This has been a great couple of days. And I hope it’s the first of many contributions you get to keep this going to help others. [Applause]

Loren Feldman:
Well, I can’t thank you enough for that. You’re making me emotional too. That means so much. I’ll let you remain anonymous, but thank you for that. You have no idea what it means, and thank you all.