She Sold Out at Three Trade Shows. Why Was She Disappointed?
Introduction:
Channon Kennedy spent between $15,000 and $20,000 exhibiting her Morgan Square measuring tool at five trade shows in eight weeks. She sold out at three of them, had her best sales day ever at another, and made valuable connections with potential distributors. And yet, she was disappointed. This week, Channon compares notes with Jennifer Kerhin, whose company manages trade shows, and Sarah Segal, whose PR firm helps clients make the most of them. Jennifer suggests that Channon may need to rethink how she measures success, while Sarah explains how exhibitors can get more out of their investment by attracting attention before, during, and even after a show.
Plus: We learn that Sarah and Jennifer have very different philosophies about rehiring former employees. Sarah sees an opportunity to bring back people who already know her business and have gained valuable experience elsewhere. Jennifer has done that four times, but she says she’s not doing it again. And Sarah explains why, after a year of rapid growth, she’s planning to be more selective about the clients she takes on in 2027. She’s learning that sometimes the most important thing an owner can do is say, “No.” The episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank.
— Loren Feldman
Guests:
Channon Kennedy is CEO of Kiwi Vision.
Jennifer Kerhin is CEO of SB Expos and Events.
Sarah Segal is CEO of Segal Communications.
Producer:
Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word.
Full Episode Transcript:
Loren Feldman:
Welcome Channon, Jennifer, and Sarah. Thanks for joining us today. Channon, I want to start with you. You’ve just completed a pretty ambitious stretch of traveling the world, attending trade shows, demonstrating your Morgan Square. I understand that you weren’t completely happy with the experience. Tell us how it went.
Channon Kennedy:
Yes, I’ve just finished my—I’ll call it my first world tour. Okay, it was only across the United States, but yes, I did five trade shows in a matter of about eight weeks. And the fifth one was completely unplanned, however. So my tour started in Maine. I went to the Maine Woodworking Event, and it was a great experience. I had not been to Maine before, had a lot of traction at the show, and it led to some leads, which hopefully will ultimately end up being conversions or sales or future exposure.
And then I headed down south to Atlanta and went to the International Woodworking Fair. That is the longest and largest trade show that I went to. It’s about a week long. The team and I usually go to this one. It’s every other year. We had a great show, sold out there. Then I headed west over to San Antonio, to the Build Live Show. That was my first time in San Antonio, first time exhibiting at the Build Live Show as well, another sold out show. That one was only two days. And then I went to Austin to the Texas Woodworking Fair. Another great experience, sold out while I was there. And then lastly, from the Austin show, I ended up connecting with a few folks from Woodworking magazine, which then invited me out to Woodworking in America in Iowa. Another great show, and came close to selling out. So all of these shows were great, and I got a lot of traction while I was there, but it was the volume of traction. A lot of the shows just seemed slower to me in general.
Loren Feldman:
What do you mean by that, Channon? Not as many attendees?
Channon Kennedy:
Yeah, it seemed that way. And for example, just talking about the International Woodworking Fair, this was my third time there. I mentioned it’s the largest in the country. So I think for that particular show, it’s Tuesday through Friday. You know, Tuesday-Wednesday’s okay. Usually it slows down by Friday, but it just didn’t seem as though—I mean, we got a lot of traffic. So I guess I’m gonna say people intentionally were coming to see me this time. I got my name out there. People knew I was coming. So a lot more people came by, and so it just seemed like the crowd in general was not as thick as I’ve seen it before.
Loren Feldman:
What were you hoping to accomplish? Were you primarily looking for sales or for increased exposure?
Channon Kennedy:
I think it’s always a mixture of both. So, looking for distributors. I think for the Atlanta show, my biggest—not disappointment but just kind of like, “Ah, this may not be for me anymore,” was: It’s more about the big massive machines now. So it’s at the Georgia World Congress Center, so it’s quite large. But this time when I went, one thing that stuck out is that, like I said, there were a lot of massive booths, like 20 by 20 where the folks that were exhibiting had to get there the week before to build these things that they had going on.
Loren Feldman:
Jennifer, this is your world. You manage trade shows for a living. Does Channon’s experience surprise you?
Jennifer Kerhin:
I guess a little bit. It is surprising, and it’s not surprising. And why it’s not surprising is smaller companies sometimes have expectations that are different than larger exhibitors. And trade show organizers are trying to balance a lot of different stakeholders. They’re trying to balance what attendees want to see. They’re trying to balance the big guys that are on the trade show floor who spend a significant amount of money. But they’re also trying to balance the needs of smaller companies, because that’s usually where the innovation comes from. So I think from your perspective, Channon, it’s one perspective, but I’m not so sure that every stakeholder would have that same experience.
Sarah Segal:
Do you think that that’s in part related to the economy and like these larger distributors saying, “Hey, listen, getting to the show and doing all this work, like they’re also facing a lot of hurdles in terms of tariffs and stuff like that. Like, do you think that there’s some decisions outside of the trade shows’ control that are impacting attendance?
Channon Kennedy:
Absolutely. I really do think that. And that’s probably what one of my struggles was. You know, you get prepared for these shows a year in advance. So by the time the economy and everything picks up, and everybody’s—not everybody, but a lot of folks are—saving onto their pennies. I mean, we are in some economic turmoil. There’s no doubt about it. Mostly everyone is impacted somehow, some way or another. So I absolutely think that. That kind of impacted my experience, and then it’s just putting it on my radar that I’m gonna have to change the trajectory for next year.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Channon, you said you got people there, you had good traffic. Was it the right kind of traffic?
Channon Kennedy:
Oh yes, I had the right kind of traffic. I had a lot of new traffic and some existing customers come through. I had a great conversion rate. And I say that because, even though it wasn’t as busy, I was still selling. But I guess I expected more.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Well, I think that’s a big thing with trade shows, right? Expectations. The interesting part is large trade shows have a lot of people. And sometimes people see how many people are coming—like how many people come to the International Woodworking Fair?
Channon Kennedy:
Thousands, I’m sure.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Okay, so maybe 10,000 or above, or do you think it’s under 10?
Channon Kennedy:
I would say, just stick to 10. I don’t leave my booth, so it makes it difficult.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Okay. Sometimes when you see big trade shows, you see big numbers and you expect big numbers by your booth. But really, what you should do is evaluate: how much did it cost to be at this event and how many sales you got from it—not just new sales but sort of relationships with current ones—and figure it out that way. Because if you’re a smaller company, you’re never going to get everybody at a big trade show. But if you can just make a few inroads and keep building on it, it might be a good fit. It may not be, but instead of looking at numbers of people, maybe just look at your return on the investment for your cost.
Loren Feldman:
Channon, when you told us that you sold out at some of these trade shows, you’re saying, you actually bring your Morgan Square in bulk to the trade show and try to sell as many as possible?
Channon Kennedy:
Yes, yes. So I literally do bring my product with me, with the possibility of shipping what I don’t have. Yes, I physically bring a certain amount of product that I anticipate selling at each show.
Loren Feldman:
So if you sold out, does that tell you that maybe you didn’t bring enough?
Channon Kennedy:
No, it doesn’t, because by the time I sell out, there’s a strategic plan. I sell out. I’ve got it all the way down to almost the last day, where people are coming back for things such as that, knowing that the traffic is not consistent. And when I say sell out, I mean sell out with what I just had. That doesn’t mean I’m not able to still take orders and ship.
Loren Feldman:
And are these sales primarily one-offs to people who buy them for themselves, or are you selling to retail outfits?
Channon Kennedy:
It’s both. So usually at the shows, they’re individuals. But then I do leave with those leads where I have the possibility of retailers or suppliers that will be able to take that forward. But that of course takes some time. So there’s both. And then with the existing customers, it’s maintaining those relationships and determining how we can grow in the future.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Channon, one of the other things about big trade shows that you don’t see with smaller ones is you get to walk around and see what’s happening in the industry. Did you get a sense of what’s happening in your industry by going to this one?
Channon (14:37)
Yeah, I mean I do walk around, except the international is just one show, and I go like every other year. So most of them are smaller. This is my third time at this show. I’ve walked around, I have a magnificent PR team that looks out and has people coming to see me when I’m out there and driving traffic to my booth. But I do walk around and I meet other people and see what’s going on. I mean, I know that my product in itself is quite unique. A lot of things today are digital-powered or AI-intelligent and all of this other stuff. And I have a genuine hand tool that is so simple. And that’s a big differentiator.
Loren Feldman:
Jennifer, are you seeing declining attendance in general or an impact of the economy in general on the trade shows that you handle?
Jennifer Kerhin:
It completely depends on the industry, right? So if you’re doing a trade show about building data warehouses, well their year-over-year attendance is skyrocketing. If you’re doing one that’s in an industry that’s tough, sure. I think what Sarah said earlier about the economy, there are some costs associated in terms of, like, airfare has gone up, some travel costs have gone up. But in certain industries, it doesn’t matter. This is the one place, at a trade show, where so many different stakeholders are coming in.
The reason I talked about what’s happening in the industry is small business people really should go to their industry events just to hear what’s going on, because sometimes we live in a bubble. And to hear what’s happening on a broader scale, what’s happening at the macro level—so to answer your question, no, it’s completely industry dependent.
Loren Feldman:
Channon, you said that you were rethinking your plans for 2027. How so?
Channon (19:23)
Well, I mean, it’s a few things. One of the things like you said with the flights and everything else, it is very expensive to get around. But I also know that one of the focuses is bringing the trades back to the States. And so there’s a lot of interest in carpenters’ unions and things such as that. So instead of trying to fly across the country, finding more things that are in my backyard or closer to me, or at least in the Midwest and in places where it’s perceived well. Instead of two of us, maybe it’ll be one of us or switching those out.
Like I said, I’ve got interest. I guess I was hoping for a bit more exposure or, you know, people who are willing to spend their dollars. I’ve had a few people with interest, for example, with retail, but everything is taking much longer when it comes to the larger companies for conversion just due to costs, tariffs, shipping, all of that good stuff. So it’s just a lot to think about.
Loren Feldman:
Do you know how much you spent on trade shows in 2026?
Channon Kennedy:
Probably about $15,000 or $20,000. I don’t have the number off the top of my head, but yes, they’re costly.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Channon, does that include your travel costs?
Channon Kennedy:
Yes.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Wow, that’s pretty good, actually. For the amount of shows you did, the travel and exhibits, I think that’s a pretty good price.
Channon Kennedy:
Well, yeah, I mean, I lucked out at a lot of them. I mean, some of them are very expensive. Don’t get me wrong. I mean, they’re $5,000 to $7,000, if not more, but since I am a small business, a lot of them have boutique packages for small businesses that I can usually talk them into.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Wonderful.
Channon Kennedy:
I think the Build Show Live was the most expensive one that I’ve ever done—but trying something new.
Jennifer Kerhin:
How was that show for you?
Channon Kennedy:
It was a great show. It was only two days, so it wasn’t that long. And I sold—actually that show was my best sell-out day ever. It was the most squares that I had ever sold in a single day at any trade show on the last day at the Build Show. So I did book to go to the next one next year already.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Wonderful. So I’m looking at their floor plan now, Channon. They have a demo stage and a theater. Do you think you would ever not just have a booth, but try to do something on one of the stages?
Channon Kennedy:
I’ve done that, too. I didn’t do it at the Build Show Live. I did that at Woodworking in America. And so this was my first time getting on a demo stage, and it was quite interesting. Like I said, I was in Iowa and I just know that my product and everything else, it kind of sticks out. So it was a great experience, but I think it was more interesting because once they saw me on stage, they were more so looking at like, “Wait, what is this woman talking about?” I mean, because construction in itself is male dominated. There’s less women who are in the construction trades and even less who are inventing tools. So being on that stage, what it did was after I got off the stage, it actually drove more traffic to my booth where people wanted to come and personally chat with me.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Perfect. And Channon, I think that’s the perfect way to maximize the impact of a trade show. And I think this is where trade shows and what Sarah does and PR combine for marketing. The best way is to do some sort of marketing or PR either prior or during the show that will help drive traffic to your booth. So Channon, it sounds like you have the perfect combo.
Loren Feldman:
You know, while we’re talking about trade shows, Jennifer, there’s something I’ve always wanted to ask you, which is basically, does what happens in Vegas really stay in Vegas? [Laughter]
Jennifer Kerhin:
I guess it depends, right? Vegas has some really big shows. There’s always a lot of people who go there. So sometimes it stays, but not always.
Loren Feldman:
And how does that translate into managing your employees? I mean, you have a fully remote company, you come together there, you work hard during the day, I assume everybody goes out at night. As the person in charge, are there things you have to think about in that situation?
Jennifer Kerhin:
Yeah, we definitely have on-site policies. I would say, most of the time people are too exhausted. When you’re running a trade show, there’s 15-hour days on-site. So most of the time you’re pretty exhausted. The rare time that you go out, you’re just trying to have a nice dinner. So to be honest, we do have on-site policies: how much you can drink, it doesn’t go on my expense account.
Loren Feldman:
You don’t pay for any drinks?
Jennifer Kerhin:
No, we don’t pay for any liquor. You have to dress a certain way, either in our uniform or certain shoes. You’re not allowed open-toe shoes on a trade show floor, and so no sandals. So we have on-site dress codes. We also have on-site expectations. But anybody who runs a trade show knows that they’re really, really exhausting—not only from Channon’s standpoint, as an exhibitor, but the people who run it. And so we’re usually not partying it up. It’s the attendees, not the exhibitors, not the organizers—the attendees that are the people. [Laughter] But what’s interesting: The younger generation does not drink as much. So there are substantially less bar bills now from organizers, because the younger generation doesn’t drink like our generation.
I have a question, Loren, for Channon, that’s about media, and for Sarah. Channon, when you were at any of these bigger shows, did you touch base with any of the trade show media that was there? Because sometimes they’ll have a whole media room.
Channon Kennedy:
Well I did have some people come to my booth, if that’s what you mean. We’ve got videos and stuff that are subsequently being released or put out there. It just takes time for them to go through and put all that together. But yes, I get mic’d up quite a bit.
Sarah Segal:
Yeah, so what we do generally with trade shows is, if your client is a registered presence at the trade show, the trade show has an obligation to collect information from any press that are registered to go to the event. Sometimes that is a well-organized machine, sometimes they don’t do that that well. So what my team will do is, they will reach out to any publication and or reporter that previously attended the event or attended similar events and say, “Hey, listen, are you gonna be going? If you’re going, please come visit my client. They’re at X booth, and they can talk you through this brand new thing”—because there’s usually a hook of some sort.
And then part of it is just like sometimes there are repeat people who come back and see how you’re doing, and it’s just establishing a relationship because they want to see how, for example, Channon’s company is growing and what they’re doing next and what other products they may have come out with. So what we do is we look at trade shows as the start and continuation of conversations.
Jennifer Kerhin:
I think that’s really good advice for your listeners, Loren, that if you’re going to participate in a trade show, there is significant PR that can be wrapped around it. And the trade-show organizers want to bring in media. Mostly it’s trade show media rather than consumer media, but they want to bring that in, and you can access that and get some incredible exposure. And I think anybody who’s considering doing a trade show should look into that.
Loren Feldman:
All right, let’s do another edition of Beyond Small, brought to you by our friends at Grasshopper Bank. Here’s today’s question for all of you. If you were given a blank check tomorrow that could be spent on either one growth hire or one major system upgrade, which would you choose?
Channon Kennedy:
I can jump in on this. I would go for the growth hire. I’m right there now.
Loren Feldman:
What would you want that person to do, Channon?
Channon Kennedy:
I actually would need to give that some thought, because since I’ve graduated from Goldman Sachs, I have this running list of founder task versus CEO task. And let me tell you, it would be a combination of founder tasks so that I could focus on my business instead of in my business. But it would definitely be someone who would be able to help identify potential opportunities. But I’d have to write out that job role a little bit more in detail.
Loren Feldman:
Do you have a sense of how big a difference it would make for you?
Channon Kennedy:
It would be geared toward obtaining more sales. And I say that as I’ve been looking for these right and warm connections into the spaces where I know I need to be—like, for example, carpenter’s unions or trade schools and high schools, things such as that. So yeah, it would be someone who would have an idea of the landscape, have some connections, or know how to approach that particular ecosystem to get those warm introductions or get my square in front of them.
Loren Feldman:
Sarah, how about you?
Sarah Segal:
I agree with Channon. I would totally do a hire over systems. Because here’s the thing, AI is changing back-end systems so rapidly that there’s nothing that I don’t have already that I need. There’s new toys out there every day, but it’s not a priority. But good human capital and senior human capital, there’s nothing better than that, in terms of what, as Channon was saying, delegating out some of your responsibilities. So that way you can focus on the things that nobody else can focus on.
I would probably invest in somebody who could support two things: One would be original events. I have a lot of ideas about what Segal Communications can do for bringing media and influencers and brands together at events. And someone who also can help with making sure that we are out there in the world in the right places at the right time. So, not necessarily somebody doing new business, but somebody just making sure that we are helping check the boxes and making sure that we’re involved in the right ways.
Because my team’s really good at helping me with that, but I can’t be in 10 places at once. And San Francisco’s a big enough metropolis that there’s a lot of events that I should go to. But I also need to be a parent and I need to make sure my team is in a good place. So yeah, I would probably bring in a VP.
Loren Feldman:
Jennifer, I think you’ve told us you’re already planning on hiring. I’m giving you a blank check now. Are you gonna hire some more or invest in some kind of system?
Jennifer Kerhin:
No, I’m investing in systems. I have a lot of good leaders who need better data to make faster decisions. And so I’ve already hired two consultants. As much as everybody says AI is really easy to figure out—
Loren Feldman:
Who says that?
Jennifer Kerhin:
I don’t know, I feel like all I ever read is, “You can figure this out yourself,” which I can for like basic stuff asking ChatGPT. But incorporate it into your systems? So I’ve hired someone to help us create an operational dashboard which will link multiple of our systems so that our leaders will have data at their fingertips to make better decisions. So we have Salesforce, we have Teamwork.com, we have QuickBooks. We’re putting it all into one operational dashboard. So if you gave me that blank check, that’s where I’d spend all of my money: in integrated, AI-enabled systems so human leaders can make faster and better decisions.
Loren Feldman:
On the off chance, Jennifer, that I’m not able to produce that blank check, is there another way you’re gonna get this done?
Jennifer Kerhin:
I mean, I’m paying for it, so I’m already getting it done. It should be done by the end of the year. Phase one will be done by the end of the year. Phase two will be done by Q1. I would just get it done faster. I’d get it all done if you could give me the blank check by the end of the year. If not, it’s gonna be spread out over the next nine months.
Loren Feldman:
By the way, I think Jaci Russo is in fact building one of those dashboards just like you described it. We’ll have to get the two of you on at some point to compare notes on that.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Yeah, here’s the thing: I agree with what Sarah said, that human beings are needed to do this work, but I absolutely have bought into: AI-enabled systems will just help humans do things faster and better. And I feel like I’m behind the times.
Loren Feldman:
You won’t be if you get that dashboard.
Jennifer Kerhin:
That’s right. We’ll see. We’ll see.
Loren Feldman:
Sarah, you’ve just completed what you called your state of the agency plan and your budget for next year. What did you decide?
Sarah Segal:
Well, I have to tell you that I leveraged AI pretty nicely this year, and it was kind of awesome.
Loren Feldman:
Do tell.
Sarah Segal:
Well, the way I price things is, I price things based on how much a person costs me, my overhead plus profitability of 20 percent. 20 percent is what agencies kind of go for. It’d be nice to have 40, but 20 percent is always the goal. And so I’m looking at 2027, and I’m establishing revenue goals for the year, but I also know that I want to keep growing my company. And I have a great set of senior leadership, but late last year, I had a former employee come back to the company, and that’s been so wonderful. She had gone and worked at a robotics company for a while and missed this and came back into the fold.
And then recently, I had a former employee reach out and say, “Hey, listen, if there’s an opportunity, I’d love to talk about coming back.” And so they actually came into the office this week, and we’re in conversation about that. So they would come in and take over a senior leadership role and basically help me establish a practice section for our business that already exists. It just doesn’t have its own team for it. So she would be the person to kind of establish best practices for it.
Loren Feldman:
I’m curious about rehiring former employees, Sarah. Why did these two employees leave in the first place?
Sarah Segal:
Well the first employee, I had layoffs in 2023 and had to let three people go because I had a bunch of clients that ran out of money and I had to make some tough choices. And it was a really awful experience, but I did give them recommendations. I put them on the track for hopefully getting new employment. So it was not a cut-and-dry solution. So they ended up in good places.
This person who came back, she had reached out to me and said that she had planned on leaving her current company just to find something different. And I made the offer of, “Hey, you know, I never wanted you to go, but I couldn’t afford you. But I’m back in a good place, and would you come back?” And that was just luck.
This other person, you know, we’re in San Francisco. I can’t compete with big tech money, but I can compete with lifestyle, right? When you go and work at some large tech company, you’re gonna be pulling 10-, 12-, 14-hour days, because that’s the norm. But I really protect the work/life balance of my team. And this former employee who reached out to me recently, she left under—I expect people to leave at some point. I don’t hope they do, I just expect it because I can’t compete financially, but also I get a lot of people right out of college and they should go try other jobs just to see what else is out there. But this former employee now has a family and wants to be able to spend more time with their kids. And so, I get that, and I never wanted them to go in the first place, but I understood it. So I would be happy if they came back.
Loren Feldman:
Jennifer, I believe you’ve had a different experience with rehiring former employees. Tell us about that.
Jennifer Kerhin:
Yeah, so I’ve been in business 16 years, and I’ve had four employees leave, and I’ve taken them back. I had a lot of feelings like Sarah, too, that they know your systems, they know your business model, they know your customers. They don’t have a high training-time period, a learning curve to come back. But I have decided this year that I won’t be doing that anymore. And it’s a combination of, I think one is, sometimes when people leave, they think the grass is greener on the other side. And instead of helping us water and fertilize our grass to make it greener, they glamorize something else. And I want to reward loyalty. I want to reward people for helping me grow this company for all of us.
I think it’s also a size—I’m not sure. I just have a different perspective. I definitely did it, and I will no longer do it. I also feel like the people who are here sort of got a little frustrated with that—that you would take people back—because they were here helping the company grow and get better. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I just have a very, very different philosophy. And I think it comes down to, as a CEO and a founder, what are your core values? And one of my core values in my entire life is loyalty. And they asked me, “How does that square with the fact you’ve taken people back?” And I was like, “Wow.” So, again, no right or wrong answer. You have to do what’s right for you and your company at the time. But moving forward I won’t be doing that anymore.
Loren Feldman:
Jennifer, did those four employees come back at a higher level than when they left?
Jennifer Kerhin:
One did. I think she was like Sarah’s, that she went out and got more experience. Two of them came back at the same level. The third actually came back at a lesser level, because they didn’t want the high-level responsibilities they had before. So, a combination.
Loren Feldman:
Are any of them still with you?
Jennifer Kerhin:
Two are.
Loren Feldman:
So it’s been mixed, some have worked out and some haven’t, or how would you view that?
Jennifer Kerhin:
Yeah, I would say that. And I think it’s just, I don’t want to do it anymore because there was a reason they left. And I want to train, motivate, and inspire the people I have or get new fresh eyes from outside. And it’s not as if they wouldn’t be eligible for rehire. It’s not like there’s anything wrong with them. I just decided philosophically I’m not gonna do it anymore.
Sarah Segal:
So the thing about return employees, or even new hires, that I do is, especially if they’re more seasoned and they’ve worked a lot of places, I’m always asking them how they did things at their old employer. Because there may be ways that I do things that could be done differently and would make me a better company. So when somebody comes back, usually they have some sort of wealth of information that I can leverage. So they’ve gone out in the world, and they’ve absorbed different education. And usually when they come back, they apply that. But again, I hire people right out of college. And so it’s just a different thing. I don’t know if Jennifer hires people right out of college.
Jennifer Kerhin:
I do. I have a combination. I would say about 20 percent of the company is probably under 30, right out of college.
Sarah Segal:
But don’t you think you should go out there and see what else is out there so you have a perspective?
Jennifer Kerhin:
Sure, I don’t say you shouldn’t. I just won’t hire you back. Yeah, it’s a different philosophy, Sarah. I don’t think there’s right or wrong.
Sarah Segal:
Yeah, and that’s fine. And like, you and I differ on other things. Like, I don’t hire any remote employees. I don’t believe that that creates the team that I personally need to run my business. So you have to live in the San Francisco Bay Area to work for my company.
Loren Feldman:
We only have a few minutes left. I want to go back, Sarah, to your plans for next year. You’ve talked here previously about how you’ve been growing quite quickly this year, but you want to focus more on profitability going ahead. And I’m wondering to what extent that’s reflected in the plans you’re making for 2027.
Sarah Segal:
So I always have kind of modest goals for every year, just like things that we can attain. And then I establish kind of big, audacious goals. So I don’t imagine I’ll be able to maintain the growth that I had this year—although, who knows? I mean, San Francisco is definitely having a bit of a renaissance, which I’m happy to ride the wave of. So I’m approaching next year as not the same growth trajectory, but more of a normal growth trajectory, where we are really focused not on getting new clients, but building out the clients that we do have and more liberally saying, “No.” Because I have a problem with thinking everything is interesting and want to do it all. But I also have to say no when the timeline isn’t correct, where someone comes and says, “I wanna open my X, Y, and Z in four weeks,” and our timeline for grand openings is 12 weeks.
Like, I just need to be more comfortable that the word “no” is an okay word, because when I don’t say no, I put us in a predicament where, A, we’re not gonna be successful and, B, my team is being sidetracked from those clients that are on retainer, that pay us every month to be part of their team. So there’s a lot of thought that goes into not just the financials, but how I want my team to build, in terms of how we how we’re perceived. Like when somebody meets us, how are people talking about us behind our backs? And that’s part of my growth strategy as well. What are those conversations that we’re not privy to? And if they’re not the ones that we want to be having, how do we change those?
Loren Feldman:
So if I heard you right, it sounds like there’s business that you might have pursued this year that you’re kind of committed to not pursuing next year?
Sarah Segal:
Every year I try to have my minimum retainer go up. It’s the only way that I can support people who stay with me, because employees expect raises and bonuses and all that kind of good stuff. So I have to make sure that my minimum retainer aligns with that. And so, when I first started out, I had really small clients. And I can’t do that anymore. But I do have a network of independent publicists that I can refer business out to.
But I also have a lot of referrals that come to me, where it’s like agencies that are much bigger than me can’t do jobs because the retainer is too small for them to justify. One thing that I have really been good about developing is a referral network, either me referring out stuff to people or getting referrals from other businesses. Because I need to make sure that my entry level makes sense for me.
Loren Feldman:
What’s your minimum retainer going to be in 2027?
Sarah Segal:
It should be $5,000 a month.
Loren Feldman:
What does that mean, “it should be”?
Sarah Segal:
Well, because if, for example, if we’re just doing one social media handle for a client, what will happen, for example, we work on a lot of grand openings of a very well-known facial bar brand. And what we generally do with them is that we do six months at a higher retainer rate to get their doors open, get buzz, get influencers, do their social media, and this and that. And then once our doors are open, they really just need the social media management and a handful of influencers every month. And so that retainer goes down. And that makes sense to me, where we’ve packed in a lot in the first [part], and then generally those franchisees have more than one location, and so then we’ll be starting to work on their next location.
So that’s why I say, “It should be.” It’s because it’s an imperfect place. And also, there are really cool things that we get presented that are a little bit less, but give us visibility that we would not otherwise have. So it just puts us in conversations, and there’s a new biz-value to it. So that’s why sometimes I’ll say yes to a lesser retainer if there is another value add to it.
Loren Feldman:
My thanks to Channon Kennedy, Jennifer Kehrin, and Sarah Segal. And special thanks to our sponsor, Grasshopper Bank. Thanks for listening, everyone.
