Bonus Episode: When Private Equity Comes for Your Industry

Introduction:

This week, Dr. Randy Spencer talks about the changes that have been roiling the vet business. For one thing, that pandemic puppy boom we all heard about has brought additional stress to veterinary workers who had already had more than their share. For another, there’s been a wave of corporate money and private equity flowing into the industry. That sounds as if it could be a good thing. And in fact, Spencer says he’s been dodging a constant flow of acquisition inquiries for years. But the big money has also engendered considerable turnover and disruption, and in response, Spencer decided to sell 100 percent of his business, 1st Pet Veterinary Centers, to an employee stock ownership plan in 2021. The transition to an ESOP remains something of a work in progress, in part because veterinary people tend to be more focused on pets than they are on profits. “Veterinary medicine,” Spencer says, “is just the best profession in the world. In a way, it’s a service industry, but we get to serve pets. That’s why veterinarians get into it.”

— Loren Feldman

Guests:

Dr. Randy Spencer is CEO of 1st Pet Veterinary Centers.

Producer:

Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word.

Full Episode Transcript:

Loren Feldman:
Welcome Dr. Spencer. It’s great to have you here. First of all, if you would, could you tell us a little about 1st Pet Veterinary Centers? How’d you come to start the business?

Randy Spencer:
Thank you, Loren. Great to be with you. I mean, that goes back over 30 years. I came out of veterinary school, went to Colorado State University, and got into a practice that was a practice that was wanting to be PetSmart before PetSmart existed. And as it turned out, that didn’t fly real high, and the owners of the company came to me and asked whether I wanted to buy it. And so I bought it in August of 1989.

It was a pet store and a combination of things. I decided to eliminate the pet store and go just veterinary medicine. And so we started small, one veterinarian, then two veterinarians, and a small group. In 1995, we decided to add in a 24-hour emergency, just because the need was there in our area of Chandler, Arizona. And so, we started that up and brought in—

Loren Feldman:
That seems like a big step.

Randy Spencer:
Yup, that was. There were 10 veterinarians in a five-mile radius of us. And I had a friend who did some management consulting, and he and I went around and visited all the veterinarians in the area and just got a sense of what they needed and just tried to develop some relationships with the veterinarians.

But that was a big step. That was a turning point. We had a space that was only about 2,500 square feet as a general practice or primary care, but we added another 2,500 and had the 24-hour. Within two years, we built a building across the street, which is the one I’m sitting in right now.

And once we went into the new building, things really took off. This has been a rapidly growing area of the Phoenix metropolitan area. And we’ve had tremendous success in going out and publicizing the service that we have, and lots of people over many, many years came to us. In 2002, we added an internal medicine specialist. In 2006, we added a critical care specialist, and just right about that same time we added a surgical specialist.

So that was sort of the model we were going for. In veterinary medicine, it’s called a hybrid system, which is not very common, but where you have emergency, primary care, and where you have specialists. With the idea that, in that environment, you can have the very best possible patient care, because you have all these elements covering it.

We didn’t go off into other areas. I mean, there’s pet stores and grooming and boarding and all those things. We focused on veterinary medicine and providing care. And the other focus that we had from the very beginning was on client service and just providing a different experience for the clients and what they got at other emergency hospitals and most of the other general practices. We just focused on those things and doing it as a team.

Loren Feldman:
You mentioned that before you opened the 24-hour-care facility, it sounds like you went around and visited all of your competitors to talk to them about it. Had you had relationships with them previously? Was that an awkward conversation? What was that like?

Randy Spencer:
Good question. I mean, veterinarians as a whole tend to be a little introverted. Not all are, but I’d say 80 percent are, and I include myself in that list. So in a sense, it’s awkward. I mean, I’ve been in a lot of other situations, church and otherwise, where I’ve had plenty of opportunities to talk. There were several of them who I did know. There were others who I did not know. And I really consider them more as colleagues than competitors. Not all of them. Some of them had ownership in another emergency practice that was further away, but they elected to keep sending their cases there.

As it turns out, over time, we won many of them over. And even if we didn’t win them over, their clients still came to us by virtue of proximity. So we tried to keep good relationships with all of those other practices around. And over the many years, things have changed quite a bit. But we’ve continued to have that desire to have good relationships with the other veterinarians.

Loren Feldman:
You made a reference to how things have changed quite a bit. I mean, I think most of us are aware of a couple of things. One is that things changed during COVID, because of the puppy boom. And some of us are also aware that there’s been a change in ownership. Private equity got interested in what you guys do. Can you talk about the changes to the industry and how you view them?

Randy Spencer:
I did start to get inklings when I started to get emails. Probably after 2010-2012, somewhere in there is when they really started. It seems like not a week goes by that I don’t still get people trying to buy. And it’s private equity, it’s the corporations. I call the corporations Mars bars, just because the Mars candy company seems to be one that owns a big interest. That’s something they sort of started in dog food, and then they decided that this was a marketplace they could enter into. Their goal is to own half the market. And they’re getting closer to that.

Loren Feldman:
Wow. It’s kind of been under the radar, I think. Maybe not for you, I’m sure, but—

Randy Spencer:
Yeah, I think they’ve tried to, because they brand it under another name. I hope it’s not too snarky—but I sort of think it is—calling them Mars bars. My feeling is that all those M&Ms that I ever ate have come back to bite me now. I still haven’t stopped eating them. [Laughter]

Loren Feldman:
Well, I guess it’s nice to be getting a letter every week asking about buying your business. It beats the alternative, right?

Randy Spencer:
Yeah. And so I saw those groups, some of the big corporations, first. The private equity, I didn’t really pay much attention to. But I did start to get packages and other things saying they wanted to have a conversation. And I got an email once, and I said, “I’m just going to tell them I’m not interested.” I did that. And then they doubled down and started really trying to contact me. So I said, “That’s the last one.”

So that’s been my approach. I just haven’t ever contacted them. I just ignore everything that they send. And I’ll have a receptionist who’ll say, “Oh, it’s such-and-so on the phone.” And I’ll say, “Do you know who that is?” “No.” And I’ll say, “Well, there’s somebody trying to buy our company. Why don’t you handle that?”

But all of that, I saw that happening. We were just focused on us. But it became enough, and I’ve moved along in age. Every year we have a dinner awards for team members, where we do team member of the year and that kind of thing. But in January of 2018, I had already started reading some things, hearing some things, about employee ownership. And so, I promised the team at that awards dinner. I said, “I am not going to sell to a corporate entity. But what we are going to do and where we are going to head is toward employee ownership. I don’t know exactly how that looks, but there’s this thing called an ESOP, and so look at it.” I shared a couple little videos, and we said: That may be the path. It may not. But we’re interested in employee ownership. And I mean, really a great outpouring and appreciation of the team. They had seen other other companies that were being taken over. Over the last five years, that’s happened a lot.

One of the reasons why I really have felt that, as far as wanting to go to something other than a corporate buyout—and I will say, the strategic buyers and the private equity and all that, they are offering a premium price. But veterinary medicine, in my opinion, is just the best profession in the world. In a way, it’s a service industry, but we get to serve pets. That’s why veterinarians get into it. If they knew people were closely leashed to them, they may not have wanted to do it as much. [Laughter] But I want to take care of pets. And the people are a good part of it as well, as we develop relationships, but that’s what we do.

And so, I was the owner, I was the one really handling all the finances. And the way that I always looked at things was: As long as we provide the best patient care, the best client service, we’re going to be good. We’re going to be fine. And there’s this thing called profit. I didn’t talk a lot about it. I always considered it like the blood. You’ve got to have it. If you don’t have it, you’re dead.

So that I have shared, especially as we’ve shared more and more information with our team members. But at the very heart of veterinary medicine is people caring for pets. That’s what it’s about. And as I look at corporate entities, and what they do to businesses when they buy them out, their heart is the profit. That’s what drives everything about that. And in a business, that makes perfect sense, that you want it to be successful. But in our world, that’s still the way I look at it. I mean, profit is essential, but it’s not why we do what we do.

Loren Feldman:
Is that what attracted private equity to the industry? Did they sense that this is an industry run by people who care first and foremost about the pets, and not about profit? And they realized that if somebody cared more about profit, there would be more profit?

Randy Spencer:
Perhaps. I mean, I think there’s something to be said for that. Veterinary medicine is very fragmented. Basically, you have a lot of veterinary hospitals spread throughout a metropolitan area, throughout the nation, throughout the world, and each one duplicating what the others are doing. Each one has laboratory and radiology and all the services and that kind of thing. And so I’m sure they felt coming in that they could do some improvement in the scale. Much of that, as near as I can tell, is just by taking over some of the management functions.

I didn’t look deeply into it. But what I just told you is the way I looked at it, and the reason why I just didn’t want to go there: What I have learned is that when these companies buy veterinary practices, whatever you had is dead. And so one of the reasons for doing what we did with open-play ownership and ESOP is to maintain legacy. We feel like we built something really special. And to say, “Okay, now it’s dead,” is not where I want it to go.

Loren Feldman:
What do you mean by now it’s dead?

Randy Spencer:
Whatever the practice was, it changes dramatically. And I know the view on the business side is: We can do it better. I was speaking to a gentleman who works with private equity just a few weeks ago, and he said, “Yeah, I think doctors can’t do it as well as the business people, and doctors shouldn’t own practices.” Well, that may or may not be the case, but in my case, and our case in veterinary medicine, I think that that a veterinarian still needs to be very involved.

And so we’ve structured it, as we put our board and everything else together, that—this is language we’ve taken from the Mayo Clinic, they are physician-led; we are going to be veterinarian-led. That means the President/CEO, my position now, will always be a veterinarian. The majority of the board will always be veterinarians—not that they know how to run companies better, but that they maintain that heart. And we can always bring people in with experience in business and marketing and all that to help take care of the business.

Loren Feldman:
I heard what you said about those businesses that get taken over and essentially die. But I gather they must have some business success, or they wouldn’t keep paying premium prices to buy more practices. Is that what you’ve observed? Do these PE-backed practices do well, from a financial standpoint?

Randy Spencer:
I don’t have a lot of inside information. What I am seeing is that many of them sort of come in gently over the course of three years or so. They then change over to the culture that they want. They get rid of the management system and put their own in, and then it changes. Anecdotally, I have an individual I know in another area of the country whose practice he sold to private equity. And they’ve basically destroyed it. The people in the company have just come back and said, “Would you buy it back?”

Loren Feldman:
Wow.

Randy Spencer:
So I think some of that can occur. Some of these are truly trying to run a really good business, and so they do things right in a lot of ways. They throw money at it. I say throw money, but they invest money in a lot of different programs, and some of those I think are admirable and good. But I think, overall, it really is a negative to the system of veterinary medicine. And it is because of the priorities that are there. And that’s the issue. So many veterinarians, so many of the people who work at the places, are focused on really caring for pets.

Loren Feldman:
Has it had any impact on the way you run your business, having to compete with those other businesses?

Randy Spencer:
Again, I’m still very sold on doing what we do at a very high level, but I mean, there are several ways where we can be impacted from the corporate entities. We have a group that just came in on the emergency side. They’re venture capital- and private equity-backed, and had a lot of money. And so they’ve been throwing money around. And we try to stay top of market in all our salaries for technicians and veterinary nurses. And they came in significantly higher and have been able to draw off a few of our people, as a result of that strategy.

But as a whole, what I am seeing is that many people are dissatisfied with it. Veterinary medicine, one of the real struggles we’re facing—and it came from the pandemic somewhat, but it’s also coming from the corporate culture—is there are veterinarians who go through eight years of school, usually, for pre-vet, for vet. And some an extra year of internship, some longer residency. But then after all of that, they are leaving the profession. Emotional wellness, I think, is a piece of that. Disillusionment with corporate thinking is a part of it. But it’s also what’s happening in their interactions with clients.

At the beginning of the pandemic, everybody was very appreciative of the fact that we were there and able to help out. And the deeper in we got, and the longer along the path we got, people have become more contentious—certainly not everybody, but an increasing percentage. Veterinary people tend to be very compassionate, and I’ve learned that it also means a little bit sensitive as well.

Part of the grief process, there are several steps to that. One of those steps is anger. And one of the most interesting things I’ve just seen over the many years—and it’s worse of late—is that people in a situation of extreme stress or grieving, be it they don’t get what they want or something’s not going right or their pet’s died or a number of things, they take it out on the very person and people who are trying their very best to serve their pet.

It’s an interesting dynamic. But in that process, when you have people who love pets more than people, and then you have cases where, repeatedly, people are complaining about the price, people are complaining, it affects them. And so we’ve had quite an outflux in veterinary medicine. One of the things that’s being said—I don’t have any evidence of this, other than to believe it—is right now veterinarians are at the highest risk for suicide. And that’s a serious thing. I mean, that’s life. That’s something that you just don’t want anybody to have to go through. But it’s because of that compassionate view of things. And then, the other side of that is, back in late 2021, we brought in a social worker, a veterinary social worker.

Loren Feldman:
Is that a thing, a veterinary social worker? I haven’t heard the term before.

Randy Spencer:
Yes, she actually was working—this fits in with the other as well—in another state for one of the Mars bars companies. It was a practice very similar to ours. We had three, they had three. And the Mars bars came in and said, “Well, we really don’t need social workers, because we have our own, and we do it our own way.” And so, that made her available. And we just happened to be looking at the very time of that. And she got to see the effect of that corporation on the culture and what it did. And she’s grateful for the approaches that we’ve taken.

But we brought her in, and it’s really been good. I mean, she’s done just remarkable work. But the role of that social worker is twofold. It’s one, because of what I just said, on our team members. And the other is with our clients. And the clients are putting their beloved pets to sleep or being euthanized, and so they need support in that. And so it really has been a great help to both of those. And I mean, there are several of our people who she’s helped significantly in the background. And she can’t talk to us about exactly who or what, but I just know there have been some real significantly positive things that have happened. One of the things that she brought to light to me is that, in veterinary medicine, there is no other profession that faces death as much as we do.

Loren Feldman:
Oh, gosh.

Randy Spencer:
That’s true.

Loren Feldman:
That makes sense. But it never would have occurred to me.

Randy Spencer:
Yeah, we’ll have a weekend where, on emergency, we’ll euthanize, in a day, like a busy Sunday, 20 pets. And that takes a toll. It’s not like we get hardened to that. If you’re with somebody who is grieving, if you grieve with them, that takes an emotional toll. And that’s the other thing. That is the reason why people sort of get to a point where, “I’ve got to go take time off,” or, “I’m going to try another profession,” or that kind of thing. So those are some of the difficulties that we’ve had.

Loren Feldman:
Do you think, through all of that you just described, the fact that you’ve been employee-owned has made a difference?

Randy Spencer:
It really has. I mean, one of our doctors, and then one of the doctor leaders, came up with a program of mentorship. We’ve long done internships where we will bring people in after veterinary school, and they’ll have a one-year period where we train and help them grow, and we use them and the services. But we developed this mentorship program. And we’d been losing veterinarians, but all of a sudden, we were able to bring in six brand new veterinarians from the local college here in the Phoenix metro area. And what a breath of fresh air. I mean, they’re all great, they’re enthusiastic, and so that helps lift everybody else up.

They have a program whereby they don’t have to feel like they’re just being thrown in. And so I wouldn’t call it hand-holding, but I would call it guided mentorship, in that we’re sort of starting slow, working up. It really is just gonna be a few weeks, and they’ll be up and on the floor and taking cases for themselves and that kind of thing. And that’s what they’ve been working for at vet school for the last four years, and it’s what they want to do. And we are making it just a little more gentle, but with specialists, that makes a big difference. Experience in an emergency. You get to see a lot of things. And so, that’s one of the things that our people are looking at. “Okay, what can we do to help fix this?” And they brought that forward, and we’ve been doing that.

Employee ownership is, to me, almost impossible to have everybody care a lot about that, because you go back to what I talked about. I mean, what are they caring about? The pets. And then, we brought in the Great Game of Business, which has been really a big benefit to us. And part of it was to focus on the business and profit and other things. And you think, “Well, that’s the opposite of what you’re doing.” But as an owner, people need to understand that, and we don’t make that sort of the undergirding of everything, but it’s an important piece of our success. And so we provide regular insights. We do open-book management, sharing the financial numbers with our people.

Loren Feldman:
It sounds like you might have a workforce that’s more in need than others, perhaps, of an understanding of what drives the success of the business.

Randy Spencer:
And that’s the kind of people that we are looking for, and that’s where not everybody is fit for. Some people want to think nothing at all about it. But what we’re discovering is, in talking about it, there’s so many people who are woefully unprepared financially, woefully illiterate financially. And so we’ve had quite a few of those just come to us, “You’ve changed my personal life, too, because all of a sudden, I’m looking at budgeting or doing other things and seeing how it can run.” And it’s benefiting those who are inclined to see and jump in in some significant ways.

And I don’t see this ever being something where every single person is going to be super gung ho, whether it’s on Great Game, or employee ownership. But one of the real reasons for heading down this path was that I looked, and I always thought, “Yeah, veterinarians are probably okay, but our technicians, who we want to be lifelong employees, there’s not a good retirement path.” I mean, they’re paycheck-to-paycheck and that kind of thing. And so the employee ownership, a good part of that was developing a retirement plan. The 401(k)s, we’ve long had that. I mean, our doctors will put in money. The rest of the people really have not put in at any appreciable degree, whether we match or don’t match. So this is a way forward.

Having said that, I have learned by watching that it takes a while to understand it. And so I’ve been told, for an ESOP, it takes about five years. I recently read Jack Stack’s A Stake in the Outcome, and something that just personally helped me, because I was struggling with, “Here we’re doing this great thing for everybody, and there’s many that don’t seem to appreciate it a whole lot.” But he just said that there’s a difficulty in getting people to think about what’s possible. And he said, “You sort of want people to think, ‘Well, I have this ownership. What can I do to make the business better?’” And he said, “More likely people are going to think about what they have right now and maybe even compare with what others have—’I wonder what they have.’” The statement that resonated with me was this: He said, “There’s only one cure for it that I know of.” And he said, “That’s the benefit of hindsight.”

Over the long haul, what’s in my heart, is to truly help the people. When I say I believe this is the best profession, we have some of the very best people serving in it. I want them to have a great future. And whether they recognize it or not, whether they are aiming for it or not, I want to help them to provide for that or for them. And then they’re not going to recognize it. Yet. It’s further down the road. It’s when they start to see value build. It’s when they get closer to retirement and other things where they’re like, “Wow, that was a real benefit.”

And we try to describe it for them, but they’re focused on the pets. They’re focused on serving our clients well. And they know they’ve got to live. They’ve got to make enough money. It’s why we’ve had a few of our people peel off. It’s because they were offered huge sums of money to go elsewhere. And so that affected us, some—noy tremendously. And that’s where the ownership culture also came in. People really like our culture. I mean, that’s one of the things we do well. We have a bunch of people who are very close knit and a bit of a family feel to it. Even though we’re not small. I mean, we’re up about, right now, to 240-250 employees.

Loren Feldman:
Have there also been financial challenges associated with being a 100-percent ESOP? I assume the practice had to take on some debt to buy the business from you. And you mentioned people leaving. When people leave, I guess you have to make a payout to them from the ESOP. Has that gone smoothly?

Randy Spencer:
So we’re still very early on in the ESOP. I mean, we did it in August of ‘21. And so we’ve only had to do one payout. This was something our social worker helped with: We had one of our employees who died during COVID. And so, that’s one of the things with an ESOP. When you have a death, it automatically vests. And so there’s a vesting period. So that’s where we haven’t felt that. The leverage part of it, the part where it says, “Okay, you’re in a strong financial position,” and all of a sudden, you have a large debt placed on it. Yeah, that’s an impact. I decided to do it 100-percent seller note. I don’t love working with banks.

Loren Feldman:
That means you lent the money to the trust to buy your business.

Randy Spencer:
That means I lent the money. And it also means—I’ve had to remind our people a couple of times, because there have been some things that have caused the income flow to decrease—I say, “I’m a friendly banker.” And so we adjust the amount of principal that’s being done for a period of time, and we do whatever is necessary to make the business successful. I mean, that’s the way I look at it. I want our people to be successful. I want this business to be successful, going forward.

Loren Feldman:
And do you see it working? What’s your vision going forward? What are your goals?

Randy Spencer:
Are you saying professionally or personally?

Loren Feldman:
Oh, actually, I’d be interested in both. But I was asking for the business first, then I’d like to hear personally, as well.

Randy Spencer:
With an ESOP, to really be successful, you have to grow. You can’t just be in a place and stay where you are. And so that is our goal: to grow in some significant ways. I mentioned the Mayo Clinic. That’s one of the arenas that we are paying a lot of attention to, and what they’ve done. That’s one of the things that got me interested in this way, is learning there early on, the Mayo brothers wanted to have a 100-year company. And so that’s what I started feeling. I wanted to have a 100-year company—not sell out to a corporation. I’ve connected not only with Great Game of Business, but there’s another group called Evergreen.

Loren Feldman:
Tugboat.

Randy Spencer:
Yeah, Tugboat, which is just a fantastic organization of those who are like-minded and want to do that, who want to stay private, are never going to be corporate. And it’s a people-first organization. I mean, that fits so perfectly with us. It’s also why they have a bunch of Ps. I’m not gonna go through them, but “perseverance.” I mean, I’ve learned that perseverance is the one determiner of success. Over the last 30-plus years, there’ve been lots of bumps, but if you just keep going through, and you outlast the problems and you find solutions, then you get better and stronger and bigger. So over the long haul, I expect that we’ll have more practices. I expect it will be bigger. I expect we’ll probably branch off into some other companies that are not related specifically to veterinary medicine. I think that’s all part of the ESOP.

And as for me personally, one of the reasons I went to the ESOP: I have four daughters. Not one of them became a veterinarian or expressed interest. And so I thought, “Well, what am I going to do?” And that’s why I started looking at the employee-ownership side of things and discovered the ESOP and felt like that was a good fit for us. And it’s a runway that is unknown at this time. I mean, there have been times in those last couple of years, when I’m just tired. I’m like, “Yeah, I think I’m getting close to being done. I’m almost 65. So this seems like that’s a good time.”

And on the other side of it, I just really want to help drive this forward. I think over time—I’m president and CEO now—I’ll step down from that, at some point in the future. And somebody else will do that. And I’ll take on another lesser role, maybe more visionary, strategic, whatever. But I still want to be connected. I want to see things be successful. But we’ve got a lot of great leaders over the many years. Great Game’s helped us to really develop our leaders. We just have people who are so committed to 1st Pet.

Our world is a little different than most businesses, in that the veterinarians are on the floor. I was for many years. It’s probably only been the last 10 years or so that I’ve just done the management side, but I did management and veterinarian for the 20-plus years before that. And so, our leaders generally—not all, but generally—will be doing both at the same time. That’s not ideal, and we’re looking at ways to maybe adjust that some, so we get a little more strategic in our thinking.

Loren Feldman:
Can I stop you there for a second? It sounds like, in some ways, there could be benefits to that: of having managers also on the front lines seeing exactly what’s happening in the business. When you say it’s not ideal, is that because people are stretched too thin? What’s the issue?

Randy Spencer:
Yeah, it’s looking to the word “the business.” Looking at them, that’s what these doctors want. They’re like, “No, I want to be a veterinarian. And yeah, I’ll give you some time here to help out,” and then they get committed to that. And then there’s more time that goes in. And so being stretched thin can be that, because of all the things that they can deal with. You’re right in being on the floor and seeing things keeps you closer to what’s going on. That is a benefit. But it also weighs on you. And so sometimes we have to really remind our leaders to take some time off and rest, and that kind of thing.

Loren Feldman:
I was going to ask you if you still felt a sense of ownership, that it was your business. But I’m kind of guessing that the fact that you lent the money and became the bank behind it would definitely push you in the direction of feeling as though it’s your business. Am I right about that?

Randy Spencer:
You know, for me, it hasn’t changed. I mean, on the day that happened, August 21st, 2021, I went home to my wife: “Well, when I went to work today, I was the owner. When I went home, I’m an employee-owner.” And psychologically, it doesn’t feel any different. And I don’t know if it’s just because the business, to me, has always been ours and not mine. I mean, when it comes time to sell, it’s one of those things where I can say, “Okay, there’s some value here in that I can make sure my family is taken care of going forward.” I guess being the owner, to me, hasn’t been that much of a priority. Other than I’m here to serve, and I’m here to do good. I guess, if anything drives my life, it’s that.

And what drives me as a veterinarian is continual improvement, just always getting better. That’s why we do change a lot. We just constantly want to improve things. But in pets, one of the things that people don’t get to see that we do is, you have these pets and they could be hit by a car, severely injured, and in a cage. And we’ve got fluids flowing, and their treatments. But it’s not an uncommon practice to go back and to see a veterinary nurse or technician leaning into that cage, hugging, petting, holding, spending time with that pet.

Nobody else in the world can see or know that kind of genuine love. That pet can’t tell you, “Thank you.” Nobody knows. But that’s where I sort of go back to, that’s the heart of veterinary medicine. That’s really what drives our people. And I just want them to have success doing this great service going forward. That’s the reason for the employee ownership and the ESOP.

Loren Feldman:
That sounds great. My thanks to Dr. Randy Spencer of 1st Pet Veterinary Centers. I learned a lot from this conversation. I really appreciate your taking the time. And thanks also to my sponsor, the Great Game of Business. You can learn more about them at Greatgame.com.