My Succession Plan Just Moved to Montana
Introduction:
Jaci Russo has had quite a summer. First, her husband and business partner, Michael, underwent an unexpected quadruple bypass. Fortunately, Michael’s recovering well, and their branding agency passed an important test: With both founders largely out of commission, the team kept the business running and the clients happy. But that wasn’t the only surprise Jaci had to deal with. For the past several years, she and Michael thought they knew exactly how they would eventually leave the business. They had a succession plan. They had a timetable. And they had already begun putting the pieces in place. Now, they’re back to figuring it out.
This week, Jaci tells Jay Goltz what happened and how she’s thinking about her options now. It’s a reminder that succession planning isn’t just about choosing among selling to family, employees, investors, or some other buyer. It’s also about recognizing that circumstances change, people change, and even a plan that once seemed settled can suddenly become anything but.
Plus: We check in with Jay to see whether he’s received the hundreds of thousands of dollars he’s expecting in tariff refunds. And with Wayfair reporting improved sales, I ask Jay whether that’s a sign the furniture business is finally recovering—or whether Wayfair’s gains might actually be bad news for independent home stores like his. This episode is brought to you by Grasshopper Bank.
— Loren Feldman
Guests:
Jaci Russo is CEO of BrandRusso.
Jay Goltz is CEO of The Goltz Group.
Producer:
Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word.
Full Episode Transcript:
Loren Feldman:
Welcome Jay and Jaci. It’s great to have you here. Jaci, you haven’t been here in a little while. Has anything been going on?
Jaci Russo:
No, nt too much. It’s kinda like a gap year all shoved into about 30 or 45 days. Uh, it’s been a month, man.
Loren Feldman:
Tell us about it.
Jaci Russo:
Well, we’ll start with health. I may have, before I went on my baby sabbatical, mentioned that Michael, who is my co-founder and chief creative officer, had flunked his calcium test, and we went through the round of things that one goes through of, you know, angiogram, stent—not a good solution—and ended up being a quadruple bypass.
Loren Feldman:
How long ago was that?
Jaci Russo:
That was July 7th. And this is a healthy 55-year-old, slim and trim fit guy who plays golf a couple times a week. And, you know, he’s not a sedentary, obese guy by any means.
Jay Goltz:
I think you meant “apparently healthy.” Because he obviously wasn’t.
Jaci Russo:
By all appearances, he looked healthy.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah.
Jaci Russo:
But you know, there’s some family history and some, what do they call it: underlying factors or mitigating circumstances or whatever. And so, luckily, surgery was a great success. And like Dan with the new legs, he’s Michael with the new heart.
Loren Feldman:
And he’s doing well?
Jaci Russo:
He is, amazingly. He is. He’s ahead of schedule. Both home health and PT, who is coming to the house, said, “We don’t need to keep coming here. You are so much better than the rest of my patients because you actually do the exercises when we’re not here, and you’re very mobile.” And he’s now seen, you know, back to internist, back to cardiologist, back to surgeon, and all of those have cleared him and said he’s weeks ahead of schedule. And as long as he keeps doing the things we’re doing on the schedule we’re doing them, he’s gonna have a complete and full recovery.
Now, it takes almost a year to be back to 100 percent because they do a lot of damage in there. You know, if you tell the heart and the lungs to take a nap for a few hours, they’re a little sluggish to wake up again. So there’s all those kinds of things to work through. But at this point, he’s got a titanium cage around his sternum, because when you break the middle bone, that breastplate, it takes a while for it to heal back together. But his scar is gonna be really pretty, and he’s already realizing that he did not feel as good before as he thought he would, based on how much better he feels now.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah.
Loren Feldman:
So he had no sense that there was a problem before, but now he realizes that something had—
Jaci Russo:
Correct. Well—and we went to a lot of appointments—every time somebody would say, “Are you having any symptoms?” And he would say, “No.” And they would say, “Let me explain to you what I mean by symptoms.” Because they were like, “Obviously you’re having symptoms and you just don’t know it.”
I mean, they made him carry around nitroglycerin tablets, and I was like, “Can I just check him into the hospital and leave him there? Because I’m worried about taking him home.” And they were like, “No, I mean, he’s gonna be okay.” But he had 100 percent blockage in three places in the widow maker alone.
Jay Goltz:
Well, I’m glad to hear things are moving well.
Jaci Russo:
Thank you.
Jay Goltz:
You went to the right doctor.
Jaci Russo:
Right, and it’s a really good team. You know there’s a regional system down here in Louisiana called Ochsner, and they bought our for-profit community hospital, Lafayette General. And I have been blown away by the team care, level of care, system of care. All of it has been so impressive. We are big fans.
Jay Goltz:
Just for full disclosure: You told me about this, so of course I called my doctor, who’s the concierge doctor. I should be getting everything from him, right? And they don’t put you through the calcium test unless you have a family history. And I Googled it also, Dr. Google. There’s some false positives, and it makes people nuts. If you haven’t had a test, it doesn’t mean your doctor’s not doing his job.
Jaci Russo:
And so family history, so if your family, like you had a dad and a grandfather with heart attacks in their 40s and 50s: family history. If you are diabetic, pre-diabetic, or have diabetes in your family: family history. Those two things will contribute to calcium. Because Michael did not have high blood pressure. He did not have high cholesterol. Like his labs, until we got to the cardiac calcium test, we wouldn’t have known. But it saved his life.
Loren Feldman:
We are very happy about that, obviously.
Jaci Russo:
We are. We like him. We’d like him to stick around.
Loren Feldman:
Yes, we do. Jaci, what has this meant for the business operation?
Jaci Russo:
Well, it was a real good test. You know, everybody talks about the founders and entrepreneurs being the bottleneck, and your team should be able to function without you. We got to figure out real quickly whether or not they could, because we both checked out. Now, there was some forewarning, and there were some opportunities to put some systems in place and make sure things were properly transitioned. It wasn’t like we had been in heart attacks or car accidents, so that was great. I did not have surgery, and I felt great, so I was still able to do work remotely, a little here and a little there. Just some things that only I can do, and there’s not a lot of that. Everything else is pretty much delegated, but there’s a few things.
And just as an added value challenge, four days post-op, one of the designers on the team had a pre-planned family European vacation for two weeks. So they were down two people for two weeks, and I give the team a lot of credit. They just kept on trucking, and they got things done, and they kept clients happy, and they stayed on task and on deadline. And we stayed with our four-day week. Now, I know that they filled in extra hours, and I’m sure had to do some things on Friday to keep stuff afloat, but they did it. And we’re very appreciative that we have a team who acts like a team and covers for each other, because clients didn’t even miss a beat.
Jay Goltz:
I’m sure your clients also cut you some slack, knowing the situation. Because you have a relationship with them, right?
Jaci Russo:
Well, we do have great relationships, some of them for years and years and years. You know, Michael was not real—well, he’d have a heart attack, honestly, if he heard me talking about it right now. He doesn’t love that everybody knows his business. So we weren’t doing a lot of advance notice to clients, but Michael and I aren’t the day-to-day point people for clients. We transitioned that years ago, and so they don’t know who does their work. They just know it gets done.
Loren Feldman:
Was there anything Michael was handling that nobody else knew how to do?
Jaci Russo:
There are some things that Michael does better than everybody else, and I think the team had to step up. And then some things probably didn’t look like Michael did them, but they still looked really good.
Jay Goltz:
Okay, so as the business owner guy, I have to ask, this wasn’t an immediate, “Quick, you’re going to the hospital,” right? There was how much time between—
Jaci Russo:
Correct. We had about, like, from flunking the test to the angiogram that was 16 minutes, because there was no way they were getting a stent in there, to scheduling the surgery, and he’s on the table under the knife—that whole thing was five weeks.
Jay Goltz:
Okay, so the question is, out of those five weeks, did he sit down with his computer and make a list of stuff that if anything went wrong, that he figured you’d need to know?
Jaci Russo:
Well, let me put it to you this way. When we saw where we were headed, when the angiogram was a non-starter, I said, “Hey, listen, by law, according to this document in the safe, our 22-, 23-, 25-, 26-year-old kids have to go live with our friends Cody and Melissa. And I don’t think they’re gonna wanna do that, so we need to update our will. And while we’re at it, our healthcare directive and our irrevocable trust, and here’s a digital document that is every login, every password, every”—
Jay Goltz:
I was waiting for that one.
Jaci Russo:
Oh, yeah. And security questions and authenticator login codes. I mean, it’s everything. And so we both did that. And he goes, “Well, you’re not having surgery.” And I said, “No, but I also could get hit by a bus. There’s no guarantee just because I got a zero on my calcium score and you didn’t.”
Jay Goltz:
But the point is, there’s no reason not to do it.
Jaci Russo:
Correct. But we’ve been talking about it, Jay. I’m so glad you asked. So, we lost a very, very favorite uncle of Michael’s a couple years ago, maybe, oh gosh, a year and a half now. And I’m really close friends with his daughter, his oldest, who I actually was friends with in college before I ever met Michael. And so she walked me through all of the challenges as the executrix of the estate that she was going through. And so I promptly bought what they call the NOK Box—N-O-K, Next of Kin. And it’s a box with all these forms and documents. I can tell you exactly where that box is, unopened, in the study at the house right now.
It was just big and overwhelming and intimidating, and neither one of us ever wanted to sit down and do it—but he really didn’t want to. So then we were on a trip with our friends Melissa and Cody, and in the bookstore—I love to buy from local bookstores a little something every time, ’cause I like supporting a bookstore—and so it’s a book that’s maybe 40 or 50 pages thick, and it says, “Okay, I’m dead. Now what?” And I was like, “I like that. That feels manageable.” So I bought that book, and it sits on the table right next to my seat on the couch, unopened, untouched since maybe January. This was: Go to the lawyer, get the documents, get them notarized, get off your ass, and get shit done. And so that’s what happened.
Jay Goltz:
Because the damage you can do to your descendants, just the grief that they would have to go through, that it would be literally in 60 seconds. If they had 60 seconds with you just to go, “Quick, what’s the password? Where’s that—”
My sister just went out of town. She took her entire family to Africa. Oh my God, she sent me a whole—her entire family, kids, there would’ve been no one left. She sent me an entire thing about where everything in her house is at, and like, I respect that.
Jaci Russo:
Well, here was my theory: If something tragic were to happen to either one of us, we would be so sad. We would be so devastated. We would need to be providing mourning and support for our kids and our family and our friends, and the last thing anybody’s gonna wanna try to figure out is passwords and authenticator codes. And so, being prepared, to me, is like a good insurance policy. I hope I never need it, but if I do, I’m gonna be glad I got it.
Jay Goltz:
No, I think you’re off on one part of that.
Jaci Russo:
Yeah?
Jay Goltz:
You are going to need it. This isn’t if.
Jaci Russo:
I may not. One of us will.
Jay Goltz:
Trust me.
Jaci Russo:
Somebody’s gonna need it.
Jay Goltz:
We’re all gonna need it at some point.
Jaci Russo:
The one who goes first doesn’t need anything.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah, I guess.
Jaci Russo:
But I hope it’s not me.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah.
Loren Feldman:
But the one who goes first would like to know at the last moment that everything’s been buttoned up.
Jaci Russo:
Luckily, I mean, you know, hopefully I got 30, 40, 50 more years with him. But according to every doctor, when and if something takes his life, it will not be the heart. Something else is gonna fail first. That heart’s gonna last a long time.
Jay Goltz:
Wow.
Jaci Russo:
It’s in really great shape.
Jay Goltz:
Okay.
Jaci Russo:
So that was July!
Loren Feldman:
Well, Jaci, Michael’s surgery forced you to think about some things that you perhaps had been putting off, but I gather, almost simultaneously, you also learned that another person you expected to be working with you for a while in the business might not want to do it. Is that right?
Jaci Russo:
That’s correct. So, you know, Jackson moved back to Lafayette from Nashville after—
Loren Feldman:
Jackson is your son.
Jaci Russo:
He is our son, our oldest.
Loren:
And the heir apparent to the business.
Jaci:
He has been the heir apparent for three years. He was working for a marketing company in Nashville. When we had an opening, he was—really, honestly, I don’t think we talked him into it. I think he thought it was gonna be a great idea. We thought it was gonna be a great idea. This was Michael’s lifelong dream come true: “My boy is gonna take over.” And we put that on track. And we’ve talked about it. I’ve talked about it on the podcast. We’ve talked about it at the 21 Hats in-person conference sessions. I’ve talked about it in other entrepreneur groups I’m in.
Loren Feldman:
You told us you wanted it to happen within five years, and that was, I think, at least a year ago.
Jaci Russo:
It was, it was. Because the plan was 2030. And so we had really started to do some transitioning and some training and figured out how I was gonna take the five years and onboard him into this so it wasn’t just a switch flipped. You know, he’d watch me do it for a while. We’d do it together for a while. I’d watch him do it for a while, and then I’d be out. That was kind of my approach.
And it became apparent in the past, really, I’m gonna say, 10 months, but definitely the past four or five months, that this wasn’t his passion. This isn’t the thing that he got up energized to do every day. And I wondered if it was a phase or things going on, you know, in his dating life or just an off day, maybe a not great match with a client.
Jay Goltz:
Wait, wait, wait. I have to ask, both as a parent and a boss, was it obvious to you? Or did he say something?
Jaci Russo:
It was becoming obvious to me that something was off, but I didn’t know what that was. I get up energized to come here every day. And you can tell when people are just going through the motions or they are doing something they’re passionate about. And look, I don’t love every day, every minute, every hour at my job. I don’t, nor do I expect anyone else to. But there’s a big difference between, “I’m frustrated by this project,” or, “I’ve had a bad week,” and, “I really hate what I’m doing.” I see a lot of times in people when they are not passionate about their calling, it’s not a calling for them. It’s like they’re stuck in Jell-O, and they can’t make decisions, and they become kind of lethargic, and they seem to be sort of resentful. And there’s no joy in Mudville.
Jay Goltz:
And how did this end? Did he just come in one day and go, “Listen, I have to tell you…”
Jaci Russo:
No, no, not at all. We were talking about, “Maybe, is there another thing?” Like, “I get that this isn’t your thing, and there’s other things you could do in the company to ascend towards the top. And so maybe it’s time to transition to another thing.” So we’d been talking about that. We’d been talking about other ways he could serve the business.
And so that’s in one side of my head. We’re having these conversations, and I’m initiating them. He’s not. Meanwhile, I’m thinking—because at the end of the day, I am a human, and we are somewhat self-serving creatures—I’m like, “You know, I could sell this place for a lot more if I sold it to a stranger.”
You know, if we’re gonna owner-finance, that means we have to be involved a lot longer. I don’t want him to take on debt, but I wanna get top dollar. And so I’m thinking: What is the best situation for everybody? Not just for him, not just for me and Michael—the team, the company, the clients—everybody. What is the best situation?
Because I feel like it’s: team, clients, then us. That’s the order I make decisions in. Because if the team is happy, and not taking advantage, not slacking off, really genuinely being provided for, then they have an environment where they can work at their best, which means the clients get the best work, and therefore Michael and I get the best company. And so, everybody wins.
And so, as Jackson and I are having these conversations, it’s like he’s not feeling it. I’m not feeling it. And so about two or three weeks post-op—it must’ve been two and a half weeks post-op—we sat down, and I said, “I think we need to rip the Band-Aid off. I think we’re dancing around this topic. And I think you agree with me: This isn’t your thing.”
And he goes, “But I’m dumb to turn it down.” And I said, “No, you’re dumb to stay if it’s not the thing that makes you happy.”
Jay Goltz:
Wow. Now, that’s interesting. Because I was gonna ask you, because I’ve been through this to some degree.
Jaci Russo:
Right.
Jay Goltz:
And I’m still in it. I say I’m in the “suck” part of succession planning right now. That would be S-U-C-K.
Jaci Russo:
Yup.
Jay Goltz:
But I’ll figure it out. I don’t wanna hang it on my kids, and I’m perfectly good with: They want to do their own thing. But I was gonna ask, did he figure it out? And now you’re telling me something I didn’t think about. He was tantalized by the idea. Maybe he didn’t love it, but, “Oh, this is a good opportunity.”
I never thought about that, that this is a good opportunity, even though they really don’t want to do it. You gotta put that in the book of the family business thing. That’s interesting, that there’s ones who want nothing to do with it, ones who love it and wanna be there, and then there’s ones who know they can make money doing it and it’s a good opportunity, but they’re not—
Jaci Russo:
It’s a sense of obligation and care. He thought of it as caring for Michael and I.
Jay Goltz:
Well, that’s a whole other one. I was gonna ask you about that. How did this all start? Do you think he felt some obligation?
Jaci Russo:
Yeah, I think so. I think Michael was—and I’m not putting this on anybody. It was collective. It was the three of us talking about it. But I think that Michael definitely expressed, “My boy.” And Jackson was like, “I’m a good and dutiful son.” And, you know, it almost, to me, felt like an arranged marriage.
Jay Goltz:
I hope I haven’t done that. I don’t think I’ve done that because, from day one, I didn’t wanna hang this on my kids. I read a book from a guy that has a very successful business, and he thought his kid was gonna take it over. And in the book he said that he realized his son wasn’t, and it broke his heart. And I thought, “Ouch.”
Jaci Russo:
Well, it’s funny because a couple of years ago, one of Jackson’s really good friends was handed the keys to his family’s kingdom, which is a very successful regional business. And Jackson’s friend would be the third or fourth generation to take it over.
Jay Goltz:
Wow.
Jaci Russo:
You talk about easy street. I mean, this business runs itself. Like, he gets to just go hunting and fishing and camping and get a check. And he turned it down because it’s not his passion. And for two years, I think Jackson has, at least behind his back, if not to his face, kind of made fun of him—not in a derogatory, putting-him-down way, but like, “Dude, how dumb are you that you’re passing on this? This is so great.”
And I said, “Do you think your friend should have taken over the family business?” And he goes, “No, absolutely not. He’s so much happier.” I’m like, “Right.”
Jay Goltz:
There’s another piece to that, which we don’t have, but the reality from what I’ve seen is, if it gets to the second, third, fourth generation, there’s a lot of money there.
Jaci Russo:
Yes.
Jay Goltz:
The kid’s got some of that money already, as they should. So, the kid’s not starving. He’s a wealthy—I love that new phrase—a nepo baby. He’s a nepo baby. Which is, I’m not criticizing it.
Jaci Russo:
Right.
Jay Goltz:
He’s got family money from the family, so that does change the dynamics of the whole thing. Now, what about your other kids?
Jaci Russo:
And so that’s the other thing I actually said to Jackson. So we’ve got three daughters, his sisters, who are younger than him. One is a chemical engineer who has ascended rapidly at a very big global company, and she’s killing it. One is a film editing graduate who is now an English teacher and has found her passion and is so happy and killing it. And the third is seven days away from flying to London for grad school to marry her love in London, an English girl, and be a social worker.
Jay Goltz:
Okay.
Jaci Russo:
And so I said to Jackson, “Which one of them would you have me derail their careers to take over this business that they want nothing to do with and have no talent or aptitude for?” He said, “None of them.” I said, “Then why would I do that to you?”
Jay Goltz:
I have a friend who’s in the frame business who I’ve known forever. He’s got four kids. He sends the youngest one out here, and I spend the day with him, and I call him. And I go, “Bill, you got the kid to do this. He’s totally into it, and he’s smart.” And he goes, “Yeah, that was the fourth kid.” Meaning the first three didn’t work. [Laughter] And I go, “There’s my problem. I had three kids. You gotta have four kids.”
Jaci Russo:
Yes, yes.
Jay Goltz:
Because the odds are 25 percent. So it’s like going to Vegas. Yeah, you gotta have the four kids.
Jaci Russo:
Every stat when the kids were little, we would see that says, “One in four kids, blank.” I’m like, “Which one of ours?” Because we’ve got four.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah.
Loren Feldman:
Jaci, do you have any idea what is Jackson’s passion or what is his plan now?
Jaci Russo:
He is taking what I’m calling a gap year, and he is paring down expenses. He bought a house, so he’s renting that out, and he is driving with his dog and camping along the way to visit friends in Colorado. And he’s had, I don’t even know how many job interviews at this point, for places in Colorado and Montana, and I think he’s gonna end up working at a dude ranch and just kinda touch grass and figure out what’s next.
Loren Feldman:
So you clearly did not try to talk him into sticking around?
Jaci Russo:
No, I talked him into making a decision now to go.
Jay Goltz:
The older I get, the more I recognize it makes perfect sense that only 25 percent of businesses get to the second—that doesn’t surprise me at all. Between not wanting to do it, not having the head to do it, it just makes perfect sense. This is like, Michael Jordan’s kid is not in the NBA. I mean, there are certain aspects to being an entrepreneur that you just can’t hand off. You have to have the head for it, you have to have the heart for it, and you gotta have the stomach for it.
Loren Feldman:
Your employees have seen a lot going on with your family at this point. Has it raised questions? Are you hearing from them about what this means?
Jaci Russo:
Yeah, no, we’ve had to have some pretty open and honest conversations when all of this—because, you know, Michael was very non-sharing, because he doesn’t like that. That’s very uncomfortable for him. And so, enough—
Jay Goltz:
But his wife’s on a podcast, talking about it. [Laughter]
Jaci Russo:
We’re not the same, Jay. We’re not the same. Look, I’d be showing y’all pictures of his scar if he let me, but that’s maybe a step too far. And so, two employees reached out and said, “You know, obviously we are worried for Michael. Whatever you need, we’re here. Not to make it about us, or not to make it about me,” they each said, “But is there anything? Should I be worried?” And I said, “We’re not selling the company. We’re not shutting it down so that we can take an easier, quieter life. We are going to get him healthy, and then we’re gonna be right back at it.” And that’s what’s happened.
Jay Goltz:
Do you think that Jackson’s head was changed at all watching his father go through this? Do you think it changed his perspective of, you know, it’s one thing you think your parents are gonna live forever, and the next thing you know your father’s going in for a quadruple bypass?
Jaci Russo:
Right.
Jay Goltz:
I would think that might have had an effect on his head.
Jaci Russo:
It hit all four of them in very interesting, different ways. You know, Jordan missed, with permission, her last two days at her—she’s in the middle of a promotion and transfer. And so the last two days at her original place, she did not finish, because she came here to be at the hospital. And that manager was really great. And then the new one was really great, and so it worked out perfectly.
But they all did the thing that you want your kids or your family to do when times are challenging. The petty stuff went away. Everybody focused on the big stuff. Everybody circled around each other and ensured that we were loving each other, and supporting each other, and caring for each other.
There was a healthy dose of sarcasm thrown in, because that’s our love language. And I think that everybody maybe took a little stock. You know, as I’ve got Jordan moving with her husband to Pennsylvania and Molly moving with her future wife to London, they’re gonna be further away from us than ever before. And now Jackson’s probably gonna be in Montana. And so, I think each of them has had to take stock on: How do we continue to stay connected when we don’t physically live in the same town?
Loren Feldman:
You know, it’s very early days. Have you started to think at all about what your alternative succession plans might be?
Jaci Russo:
Yes, I have. I’ve had a couple of epiphanies. One Jay’s gonna laugh at because it’s so obvious. My whole peace out at 60 did not in any way acknowledge that I need health insurance from 60 to 65. Like, it never occurred to me that I need to stay on my Blue Cross policy until Medicare kicks in. So that’s made me reset the timeline.
Jay Goltz:
And you’re hardly the only person. Forgetting even about owning a business, a lot of the world keeps working till 65 because they need the health insurance.
Jaci Russo:
Yeah, I get it now. I get it. And so yeah, so I will too. So I’ve reset my clock, and I’m fine with that. It just kicks the can a little bit further down the road. It’s not a problem. We’ve gotten a couple of interests over the years. Once it turned into a little more than an interest. I’m not entertaining it, but it’s just nice to know you’re pretty. And so, I am very focused on ensuring that our processes improve, adapt to the AI world, really know that we are maximizing all of our opportunities and putting us in a good position for the next evolution.
Loren Feldman:
You heard that I’m offering a succession solutions workshop in January?
Jaci Russo:
[Laughter] I did. I did hear that. And it’s funny because when I first saw the notice, I was like, “Oh, my plan is set. I’m not worried about it.” Now, I’m planning on signing up for it.
Loren Feldman:
Excellent!
Jaci Russo:
Yep.
Loren Feldman:
Well, your situation will be very interesting to discuss, clearly. If nothing else, it shows that things can change.
Jaci Russo:
Yes.
Loren Feldman:
Even when you think you’ve got it figured out.
Jaci Russo:
Yes, indeed. And that’s why I think you always have to be open to what the universe provides, because you never know how things are going. You know it’s gonna change, you just don’t know how. I mean, what’s the Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.” And so this has been an interesting summer, and I feel all the more grateful for it.
To me, these are things that could have made me angry, bitter, mad, frustrated, sad, whatever. But every one of them, I just approached with a grateful heart that we found it and solved it. We saw it and changed direction. We addressed it and moved through it. And so, that’s, to me, the healthiest way to approach it. Because it means that I’m in control of my reactions, and I am able to find the bright spot, not in a toxic-positivity way, but in a how-do-I make-the-most-of-this-situation way.
Jay Goltz:
There’s another very important lesson here. There’s an old joke about: What do they call the person who’s in the bottom of their class in medical school? Doctor.
Jaci Russo:
Yup.
Jay Goltz:
So, the fact of the matter is, half the doctors in the world are below average. Half of everybody is below average. Had your doctor not been smart enough or responsible enough to send him for this test, that’s all it would’ve taken.
Jaci Russo:
Right.
Jay Goltz:
Just one small decision by a doctor that forgot to send him for that, and it’d be a very different story, which just means, make sure you’ve got a good doctor.
Jaci Russo:
She suggested it often, and he ignored it, so I’m gonna pat myself on the back a little bit. I have a really good girlfriend group from college. We get together once a month and eat dinner, and at this point, it’s sharing our ailments. It used to be that we talked about raising kids. Before that it was finding the right guy to marry. So our lives have evolved. Now, it’s a lot about menopause symptoms and weighted vests.
And one of them whose husband’s a couple years older than us had the test, found a problem, probably saved his life. And she was like, “Y’all all need to go get this test.” And so I harped and nagged my husband.
Jay Goltz:
Now I’m confused. If he’s got the family history, and it’s not like it’s an invasive thing, why would he not have gone for this?
Jaci Russo:
Because then you have to admit there might be a problem, and it’s easier just to ignore it. Ostrich, meet Michael. Michael, meet ostrich.
Jay Goltz:
Wow.
Jaci Russo:
Head in the sand, buddy.
Jay Goltz:
And he went to the doctor once a year?
Jaci Russo:
When I figured out he hadn’t gone the last three years.
Jay Goltz:
Wow.
Jaci Russo:
Well, you don’t go to the doctor if the doctor keeps telling you stuff you don’t want to hear.
Jay Goltz:
Oh, all right.
Jaci Russo:
We have had a life-changing experience though. I see a whole different approach to health care at my house now. It’s really good.
Loren Feldman:
Jay, in fairness, I feel like I have to remind you that not too long ago, a month or two I guess, we had a conversation here talking about your succession plans. And you acknowledged that you were not fully prepared for the getting-hit-by-a-bus problem.
Jay Goltz:
No, no absolutely not. I didn’t say I was. I’m working on it.
Loren Feldman:
No, no, but you were asking about why one would put off something like this. Does this raise your sense of urgency at all?
Jay Goltz:
Oh, no. Just to be clear, I do have something printed out about: Here’s all the stuff. And certainly, my will is up to date.
Loren Feldman:
But in terms of who would own the company and who—
Jay Goltz:
Well, at the moment it’s my, yeah, it’s my wife, but—
Loren Feldman:
Not ideal.
Jay Goltz:
No, clearly not. And I also would emphasize, unlike everything else I’ve done in business where I’m into fixing it and getting it done, I can only try in this regard. I’m going to try to have a glorious finish for this business when I’m out of the picture.
Loren Feldman:
You’re talking about the whole succession plan.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah. You were talking about the drop dead part?
Loren Feldman:
There’s an intermediate step where you could just solve the problem of dumping ownership into your wife’s lap and leaving the company without anyone in charge.
Jay Goltz:
And what would that be, oh, wise one? What would that be?
Loren Feldman:
It could be as simple as, first step, a board of directors who could make decisions about—
Jay Goltz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. No, I’m working on all that. Yeah, it’s all about triage. I’ve got some other pressing things at the moment, but I’m definitely working on all that. And, yeah, for sure. And I also recognize that even though I cringe—
Loren Feldman:
That’s part of how one goes three years without going to the doctor, right?
Jay Goltz:
Well, no, that’s not a fair comparison. Going to the doctor is—take an hour out of your life, go to the damn doctor for God’s sake. This is hardly as simple as that. For instance, the first step is getting over the gag reflex I have when I hear the phrase “board of directors.” [Laughter] Okay, so I’m past that, and I know that that’s a good first step. So, yeah, I’m working on it.
Loren Feldman:
Jaci, do you think all of this going on has changed the way Michael looks at his job, his business, what he wants to do at work? Do you think he’s gonna come back and be the same person or will this have an impact?
Jaci Russo:
You know, he came back into a really frustrating project, his first project back at the office. And I think it is putting him in the right frame of mind for the vision of the agency we want to continue to grow into and the kind of work we want to do, because there’s some work that we just don’t enjoy as much. It’s not as profitable, and I think he’s more on board with that than ever before. And I also think he is realizing that life is too precious to waste doing something you don’t enjoy. And so it’s not always gonna be easy, and it’s not always gonna be fun, but you need to get some joy from it. And so I do think he’s on board with that.
Jay Goltz:
Joy is good.
Jaci Russo:
Yes, very much so. Joy is good.
Loren Feldman:
So, before we go, Jay, I have a couple of quick questions for you. The government just reported that it has refunded approximately $100 billion of the roughly, I don’t know, $160 billion owed after the Supreme Court invalidated the tariffs. I’m curious, have you been able to get your tariff refund?
Jay Goltz:
No, we’re in line. We’re signed up. I check on it regularly, but there’s steps that have—I don’t have the exact language, but we’re in the queue to get it. But no, we haven’t. And I’ve gotten these emails out of the clear blue from law firms, which every time something like this happens, it creates a cottage industry, and they take a percentage. But I don’t think I need a law firm to do this.
Loren Feldman:
You don’t know that there’s a problem, you’re just—
Jay Goltz:
No, right, I think we’re okay. But I just, it’s hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s not 20 grand. Between my wholesale framing business and frame business, which I import stuff, and the home store, it’s hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Loren Feldman:
Enough to be concerned about, obviously.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah, well, I had to try to teach my kids this. If I wanted to get concerned about things, I’d be nuts. I’m already nuts enough. Jaci, I assume you can appreciate that there’s 20 things that could happen that could be really bad to each of our businesses.
Jaci:
Correct.
Jay Goltz:
And if we wanted to focus, “Well, what happens if…” Yeah, okay, stop. So, no. I’m following up on it regularly. Am I concerned a little? Yeah, sure.
Loren Feldman:
Have you thought about how you’re gonna have to pay taxes on that money?
Jay Goltz:
No. [Laughter] See, I’ll add that to the list of things that—maybe I’ll send you the list of things that I should be concerned about that I’m not concerned with, and then we can just—
Loren Feldman:
Please do. That’s our next podcast.
Jay Goltz:
Listen, paying taxes, I wish that that was a—paying taxes is a great thing. If you’re paying taxes, God bless you. If you’re paying taxes, it means you made money, and that’s a beautiful thing. It’s when you’re not paying taxes that you’ve got a problem.
Jaci Russo:
Yes.
Jay Goltz:
God bless America.
Jaci Russo:
That’s the right way to look at it though, Jay. That’s really good.
Jay Goltz:
It’s the only way. It is what it is.
Loren Feldman:
Well, not everybody is there, Jay.
Jaci Russo:
I did not look at it that way for a long time.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah.
Jaci Russo:
No.
Jay Goltz:
I’ve gotta tell you, I’m old enough. The tax rates used to be way higher than they are now. I mean—
Jaci Russo:
True.
Jay Goltz:
It’s okay. Like I said, the years that I haven’t paid taxes are the difficult years.
Loren Feldman:
Next thing I want to ask you about. Perhaps it’s on that list as well. Wayfair just announced its second-quarter returns. They say the overall furniture category is only beginning to recover, but their sales rose almost 9 percent. I’m curious what you think that means. Does that mean the overall market is improving, or is Wayfair taking more share from companies like yours?
Jay Goltz:
Probably not a company like mine, because they sell crap. If I had to guess, I don’t think the industry’s having a big comeback. I’m guessing that some of these smaller places have gone out of business. Oh, I can tell you, this isn’t even an opinion. This is a fact: Some major big furniture chains have gone out of business that did billions of dollars a year. I’m sure they’re getting some of that. So the mass market furniture thing, they’re getting some of that market. That’s not the market I’m in.
At the end of the day, I’m sorry to say, in just general business, competing with these big public corporations is not easy, and they get public money, and then they lose money for years. But you’re competing with them, and it hasn’t made the landscape—I don’t care whether you’re in the sporting goods industry, I could name 10 industries, probably, that have to deal with this, and many of them have gone away. Whether it’s the local flower shop, whether it’s competing with the big chain store, or grocery store that’s got a flower department now, the local bakery that’s competing with the big bakery at Costco—I mean, it’s difficult.
Loren Feldman:
Are you seeing any signs of recovery at all in your business?
Jay Goltz:
Framing’s doing fine. The furniture store? I can’t say that it’s, no, I don’t think it’s been rebounding. But I’ve got one store, you know? I sell interesting, cool stuff. I’ve got a very loyal following. I’m not selling bedroom sets. There’s a little, but very little overlap between what I do and what Wayfair does.
Loren Feldman:
I know you do stuff online already. Does Wayfair’s continued growth in sales suggest that maybe you could do more online?
Jay Goltz:
The problem with having one store is, I don’t have an IT department with 30 people in it. We do a beautiful catalog twice a year. We’ve got an extremely rabid, loyal, excited customer base ’cause we sell cool, interesting stuff. It’s a niche. I can’t play the mass market thing. That’s just not what we do, and it’s not where my—I don’t have the leverage to do that, and it’s not where my head’s at. I’m a specialties niche player.
Loren Feldman:
You actually opened a pop-up store in New York for a while because you were selling so much online to that area. So, you have had some success selling online.
Jay Goltz:
For sure. We do a decent amount of business online, but it’s a speck compared to what these big companies are doing.
Loren Feldman:
All right. Jaci, will you please tell Michael that we asked for him and are thrilled that he’s doing well?
Jaci Russo:
Of course, will do.
Loren Feldman:
My thanks to Jay Goltz and Jaci Russo, and a special thanks to our sponsor. This episode was brought to you by Grasshopper Bank. And thanks for listening, everybody.
