Episode 35: I Would Be Scared, Frankly
Guests:
Paul Downs is founder of Paul Downs Cabinetmakers.
Dana White is founder and CEO of Paralee Boyd hair salons.
Jay Goltz is founder and CEO of Artists Frame Service and Jayson Home.
Producer:
Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word Productions.
Episode Highlights:
Paul Downs: “I would actually warn against thinking too small, because that’s a trap I’ve found myself in for many, many years.”
Jay Goltz: “So the first thing you do now, before the world finds out that you’re not gainfully employed, is call your credit card company and get your limit raised. Little entrepreneur tip.”
Dana White: “If your product is solving a problem, or walking people toward solving the problem for themselves, they will definitely pay for it.”
Full Episode Transcript:
Loren Feldman:
We’re gonna do something a little bit different this week. For a change, you guys are gonna get to ask me questions, which I’m sure you will all enjoy. This week, of all things, we’re going to talk about why this podcast is going back to being The 21 Hats Podcast. I’m thinking our listeners will find this conversation interesting, and also, because I am now the owner of 21 Hats and since I’m fortunate enough to do a weekly podcast with experienced business owners who have done—
Jay Goltz:
Who are they? When are they going to get on here?
Loren Feldman:
Right after you guys. Experienced business owners who have done what I hope to do, which is build a business, and who also happen to represent my target market—the very people I’m hoping to turn into customers. I’m going to take this opportunity to tell you what’s going on, and to throw some ideas at you and see if I can get some free advice. You guys okay with that?
Dana White:
Great, yes.
Paul Downs:
Sure.
Loren Feldman:
So, first, you guys know most of this. Let me give our listeners some quick background. But all three of you, please feel free to interrupt with questions or boos or anything at any point.
Background: I’ve spent roughly the last 20 years covering entrepreneurs and business owners for the New York Times, for Inc. Magazine, for Forbes. Two years ago, I left Forbes to partner with Adam Witty, who owns a book publishing company, Advantage/ForbesBooks, that helps entrepreneurs write books. The idea was to take what I had learned at The Times, at Inc., at Forbes, and together with Adam, build what we hoped would be the definitive publishing company for entrepreneurs and business owners in America.
And we got off to a pretty good start. We have the Morning Report, the daily email newsletter that goes out first thing in the morning. We scour the web to bring together highlights of all the news business owners need to know first thing in the morning. And with this podcast, which as you guys well know, has been tracking the journeys of six business owners—the three of you plus three others—through this whole crisis.
The next piece of the business that we hoped to build was to be a content and community website—a platform that I spent most of last fall working with developers to design. We got it completely designed. We were really happy with it. But we never got it built. We probably needed about three more months before the crisis hit.
So here’s where we are: Adam and I have come to a very friendly agreement that, given the changing circumstances, he should focus on what he does, meaning Advantage/ForbesBooks, and I should focus on what I do, which is 21 Hats. The bottom line is: I am now the proud owner of a pre-revenue startup that has a daily email newsletter that we’ve been giving away for free, plus this weekly podcast that we’ve been giving away for free, and the designs for an unbuilt website that we had hoped to one day charge subscription fees for. Any thoughts so far?
Jay Goltz:
Good job.
Dana White:
Yeah! Here, here. Here, here.
Paul Downs:
I’d be scared, frankly.
Jay Goltz:
Don’t tell him that part of the entrepreneurial journey. He’s got to figure that out for himself.
Loren Feldman:
Hey, I’ve been talking to you guys long enough to know that I should be scared. And you’ll be happy to know I am. And I’m not sure congratulations are in order just yet, but …
Jay Goltz:
Let me step in here. Congratulations are in order.
Dana White:
Congratulations!
Business is all about leverage and control. Those are my two words: leverage and control, and you have never had control because you’ve always been an employee. So for the first time—from what I can see—in your whole life, you’ve got control over your destiny. And leverage is, you’ve got a great base to work off of.
You’re the only person I know of who has been this intimately involved with small business and has wonderful tight relationships with people. You’ve been there on the front line with them, and you’re going to now leverage that in the right and proper way that feels right and not have to have a distraction of another entity that has its own needs and desires and agendas. And hence the name’s back: 21 Hats.
Dana White:
Woohoo! Love it.
Jay Goltz:
Yeah, which is where we’re at. Congratulations. You’re in your sweet spot. You just don’t know it yet.
Loren Feldman:
Well, I appreciate all of that. Thank you for saying it. The reason I’m scared is because I still have to prove that people will pay money for what we’re doing. I had tremendous confidence that they would pay money for the website, had we gotten it built. The question now is: Can I monetize the assets that I do have, including the Morning Report, this daily email newsletter that I know the three of you read. Do you think people will pay for it?
Jay Goltz:
Well, here’s the beauty of your new business model. There’s no longer an overhead here, lots of employees and office space. Your overhead is so low now that—
Loren Feldman:
My overhead is my mortgage. [Laughter]
Jay Goltz:
Right, so that’s what I’m saying. It doesn’t require turning this into a $2, $3, $5 million dollar business. I believe that there’s enough good content that you give out. Your value proposition, I believe, is solid, and people will pay to get it, because it’s gonna be a very moderate cost. I do believe that you’ll be able to quickly monetize this thing.
Dana White:
I think that people pay for answers and people pay for a map, and so if your product is solving a problem, or walking people toward solving the problem for themselves, they will definitely pay for it.
Jay Goltz:
Let’s look at the marketplace, I mean—
Loren Feldman:
I want to hear from Paul. Are you pulling out a credit card? I know you’re my friend, and you’re going to do it, but…
Paul Downs:
Well, no, I would do it on the strength of, I subscribe to a bunch of papers because I want there to be papers, and so I would subscribe to your Morning Report, because I want Loren Feldman to prosper. And the things that you’ve done over the last 20 years, I want them to continue. I mean, we don’t know what the price is, but I presume it would be something that your average business owner could swing,
Jay Goltz:
Which is great. Tell us, Paul, what you think. Tell us right now, before you get tainted hearing a number. What would you think this price is going to be?
Paul Downs:
I honestly don’t know. Since we have the actual source of information available easily, why don’t we ask Loren what he’s thinking?
Jay Goltz:
No, no, we have to ask you first before you get tainted. So the question is, would you be surprised if it was $50 a month? What’s your visceral reaction?
Paul Downs:
That seems a little high.
Jay Goltz:
Right, okay.
Paul Downs:
It’s an aggregator at the moment. If you wanted to charge more than, let’s say $15 a month— which sticks in my mind as being about the Philadelphia Inquirer across [from] me—you would need to start producing your own unique content. And as Dana said, that content would have to serve as a map and be useful for people. I don’t think there’s any reason why people wouldn’t pay more for good content, but it has to be something that really works for them. And it has to be something that they can’t get cheaper elsewhere.
Dana White:
Who’s your market, though, too? That’s the other question. Is your market the business owner who’s been in business five-plus years? 10-plus years? 15-plus years? Who’s your market? Because that problem you’re helping them solve for, that map looks very different. My map looks very different than Jay’s map.
Jay Goltz:
But that doesn’t mean that the content isn’t equally valuable to you and me. Paul, you did answer the question. Loren and I have talked about that price, and that’s what we were thinking: 10, 20 bucks. That’s exactly where we were thinking, and you hit right into the sweet spot of what seems to be a reasonable number.
Loren Feldman:
And you did raise an interesting question. You’re right that it is primarily an aggregator at this point. Obviously, we’re producing fresh content with this podcast, and that leads to an interesting question: Do I put the podcast behind a paywall? Or do I keep it free as it is now? My preference would be to keep it free, if possible, and produce other types of content. My hope, though, is that the aggregation itself is of value—the fact that I scour the web and pull stories together that I think are useful, valuable to business owners, put them in one place for a quick read every morning.
Jay Goltz:
You’re curating, and yes, curation is an art form. You have got 20, 30 years of experience that most people do not have of knowing what articles are going to resonate and are going to be valuable.
Paul Downs:
Yeah, I think Loren is uniquely poised to start doing something which is actually quite different and better than aggregation, which is to de-emphasize the startup world, and start talking more about the Main Street world. In the articles that I see in the Morning Report now, there’s still this over-emphasis on California and raising money and a bunch of stuff that really doesn’t feel like my world at all.
To wrap it around to you gaining control of this company, you’re at a fork in the road where you either try to bootstrap this thing yourself and start listening directly to your clients and figuring out, “Okay, what does that leave me?” Or try to go out and raise money, which means that you’re responding to the ideas of the people with the money about what they think is valuable.
Dana White:
I’d love to piggyback on that. As Paul said, a lot of the information out there is focused on Silicon Valley and Silicon Alley, which is New York, and it’s not about Main Street. You have a unique opportunity to talk to the business owner who’s been open for five years who doesn’t quite understand what to do.
I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to speak with Jay and you and listen to this podcast and talk with you guys about my fears. And you go, “Oh, Dana, that’s nothing. That’s just a part of it.” Oh, really? There are so many business owners out here who don’t know that. There are business owners out here who go it alone. This podcast and the Morning Report can be somewhat of an encyclopedia, can be somewhat of a roadmap, and say, “You know what? Let me see if there’s a podcast [episode] from 21 Hats that talks about Day One, Main Street. Not Day One, Series A startup.”
You have this unique skill-set with all of these years of experience to talk to everybody in every phase of growing their business. One thing I would love to see you talk about is networking. My goodness, the idea and the revenue will get you far, but if your network isn’t where you need it to be… And you can do that. That is content you pay for, because as an entrepreneur who goes at it alone, you will have this voice in your head, this sound in your ear from the Morning Report, from the 21 Hats podcast saying, “Hey, we’ve been here, too.”
Loren Feldman:
I’ll never forget, I’ve told the story many times, of how I first got to know Paul. He sent me an email, in which he suggested that way too much of business journalism was focused on Silicon Valley, Silicon Alley, high flying, venture-backed companies, and not enough on the 96 percent of other businesses out there. He was in a particularly interesting place where he thought his company was going bankrupt at the time, and he was willing to write about it because he thought it would be helpful to other business owners. And to me, that’s kind of been the premise ever since then—trying to create content that would be useful to that type of business.
Jay Goltz:
And let’s get to the 21 Hats name, what that means. I don’t know if everybody’s thought about it who’s listening, but that was a very deliberate name, meaning 21 hats, there are 21 things, and that wasn’t pulled out of thin air.
Loren Feldman:
Well it was a little bit.
Jay Goltz:
Very little. There’s not 40, and there’s not 10.
Loren Feldman:
Okay.
Jay Goltz:
There’s about 21 things that business owners have to deal with—
Loren Feldman:
About.
Jay Goltz:
About. Okay, give or take five: insurance, hiring, firing, leases, employment agreements. There’s all kinds of things entrepreneurs have to deal with, and there’s really very few resources that really give you the inside scoop on what that’s really about.
Loren Feldman:
I didn’t want to pick a name that includes the phrase “small business” for all kinds of reasons. I think some people are offended by that name. Jay, I know you’re not. You include it in your Twitter handle, if you know you have a Twitter handle.
Jay Goltz:
Oh, I have a handle.
Loren Feldman:
I wanted a name that would show respect, that would indicate we don’t see you just as being small. We see you as doing something valuable that is not easy, and you can’t possibly be prepared to do all the things you have to do—whether it’s 21 or 41. And that was, to me, the main point behind the name.
Jay Goltz:
It’s also not a buffet where you can go, “Oh, of the 21, I’m just gonna pick out these eight. Maybe I’ll pick out the 17.” Because the reality is, you’ve got to deal with every single one of those things. And you can be gifted at some of them, and really good at others—
Loren Feldman:
And outsource others.
Jay Goltz:
But you can’t just go, “Oh, I don’t want to deal with that,” because that’s what could put you out of business.
Dana White:
Exactly. Here, here, Jay. Here, here.
Paul Downs:
I think the other thing to be considered—and maybe this is jumping ahead to a question you’re about to ask—would be: What is the form that this information takes? Because so far, we’ve got an email, a series of emails, and a series of podcast [episodes], but they’re not easily searchable. To me, if you wanted to provide value to these smallest businesses, it would be to start building a knowledge base in a way that’s searchable so that someone who just joined would be able to say, “I’ve got an HR problem, boom, I’m gonna go look at HR stuff.”
Jay Goltz:
You just described the website that he’s been trying to get going.
Loren Feldman:
That was the idea, but you make a really good point.
Dana White:
And social media. Social media is huge. You can do a 21 Hats Facebook group, and you could put all of this stuff in. They could search for it. “Here’s all the posts and links and podcast [episodes] on HR, here’s all the posts and links about sales,” like everything could be organized and catalogued via social media through hashtags and the website can connect to it. It’s easy, and it’s endless, and it’ll really help the podcast.
Jay Goltz:
Done.
Paul Downs:
There you go. That’s all you have to do.
Jay Goltz:
He’s got it. He wrote it down. We’re done. Okay, great. Take care, Loren.
Loren Feldman:
One thing I would point out—I don’t think everybody realizes this—we do create transcripts of every podcast [episode]. So you can go to 21hats.com and search a word version of the podcast [episode] and look for topics that you want to focus on.
Jay Goltz:
If we were sitting on an airplane next to each other, and you told me what you were working on, I would immediately say, “You know what, it doesn’t sound like what you’re doing is going to require a zillion dollars.” The second you try to raise money, that’s a whole job in itself. You’re back to having a boss. I believe you can pull this off without taking any investor money. And by growing it, bootstrapping it, and having control over it, because you don’t have any huge financial burdens that you’ve got to do.
The second you take money from someone, it’s a game-changer. And now someone could say, “Oh, Jay, you’re thinking small.” Maybe. I call it “thinking medium.” I’ve seen enough people thinking big who ended up giving away their business or having nothing but grief, that thinking medium works really well for me. You can make enough money and have control over your life. It’s a “Small Giant” model.
Dana White:
I think you’re thinking today, which is fine. I don’t think you’re thinking small. I think you’re thinking today. Today, I don’t believe Loren needs an investor. I mean, if it comes along, that might be something that he might set up for himself for the future. But today, he just needs to establish himself, have a strong social media presence, analyze his numbers and figure out how to market to get those numbers higher if they’re not high enough.
Loren Feldman:
I do like the idea of proving the concept before taking money, seeing if I can get this thing to work, prove that it works. And then, if there’s an investor that makes sense, consider that. Although I’d be perfectly happy never to go down that road, if possible.
There are now platforms—the best known one is called Substack—that handle the back end of an email newsletter. Substack is particularly popular among journalists who’ve been laid off, who have something of a following, who want to build on that following and monetize it without having to hire a tech person or develop those kinds of tech skills. With a platform like Substack, I can bring over—we now have about 5,600 subscribers—to the Morning Report. I can bring those over to Substack, and they will instantly make it possible for me to start charging, if I so choose.
They encourage you to believe that you are likely—if you try to convert to a reasonable price—to keep somewhere between five or 10 percent of your subscribers as paying subscribers. And if I were able to do that, I think that that would give me the start that would give me something to build on.
Paul Downs:
Can I jump back to what we were talking about just before that, which is Jay’s comment that you want to “think medium”? I would actually warn against thinking too small, because that’s a trap I’ve found myself in for many, many years.
Loren Feldman:
How do you mean?
Paul Downs:
I just focus on what’s in front of me and react to opportunities that come along, and I’ve never really had a grand vision for the company. I think that it’s been a problem, to a certain extent, that I didn’t have anything, any flag on the horizon, that I was heading towards.
Jay Goltz:
It’s not that I had a grand plan, but to what you just said, I did see a flag out there: “Oh, wait, I can do that.” So I did continue to expand. I’m right there with you. I think, yes, you need to look at what opportunities are out there. But I think thinking medium is a great place to be.
Loren Feldman:
Let me bounce this off you. I do think it’s useful to drop in the occasional item about that other world, the Silicon Valley world, just to remind people of the other path that is out there. And sometimes, frankly, it’s done to kind of make fun of it. Last week, we talked a little bit about Magic Leap, that company that raised billions of dollars and then fell flat. Sometimes it’s done just to make fun of the other approach that exists. I think that’s worth doing. What do you guys think?
Paul Downs:
No. Here’s my take on it. The way business journalism in general works is responding to the human desire for a happy fable. We know that most of this content just focuses on people who are outlandishly successful because there’s something in our minds that just responds to that. That’s the junk food of the business information economy, and it’s taken over pretty much everything.
One of the reasons why I challenged you to think big is because I think that there’s actually an enormous opportunity to provide really filling nutritious information to a really large group of people, which is people who are thinking of starting businesses or just started businesses or are in the, let’s say, under 20 employees, or under a million-and-a-half phase. Because that’s where the real danger of failure lives, is most pressing to the people who would use your content.
I think that it’s worth asking the question: What good is it when somebody starts a little business, like Dana or me, and it fails? Who benefitted from that? The ordinary tropes of business journalism have nothing to say to that entire audience, and that’s a big audience.
Jay Goltz:
When I started in business, the next year, a business publication came out—a magazine focused on small business—and I used to read it and think, “Oh my God, I’m not the only one with this problem.” It was real life stories of real life businesses and I could identify, and I could learn something with it. And now that very publication does nothing but talk about all the buzz stuff and it doesn’t have anything in there like that. It actually used to exist 30, 40 years ago. And now, to your point, it’s all about the hype.
Dana White:
That’s what I was speaking about when I said what I said earlier. I would love to see The 21 Hats Podcast and the Morning Report be a tool in the toolbox of a new entrepreneur, or someone who is in, as Paul said, that zone of, “Oh, this may not work, or it may take off.” Because, again, we don’t have that. I guess my other question for you is—and we may address this at the end—but how can we help you? Number one, how can we help, as members of this podcast, to help you launch?
Loren Feldman:
You’re already helping, Dana.
Dana White:
Yeah, but I guess my two cents on the numbers would be, you have the five or six thousand. I would grow it a little bit more before I charged. I would grow it as just 21 Hats. I would grow it in this organic space of it now being yours and grow it a little bit more. I guess the question is: When are you thinking about charging for it? I would just say, “Hey, grow it a little bit more before.”
Jay Goltz:
So in entrepreneur terms, Loren, since you’re new to this, that means take your charge card thing ‘til it’s almost at the limit, but not exactly there. Almost, and that’s when you pull the trigger to charge. Yeah, get that charge card balance up to a little bit higher.
Paul Downs:
I think that’s terrible advice. Not Dana’s.
Jay Goltz:
You know what? As they said in Rocky III, you’ve become civilized, Paul. It happens to all great fighters. You’ve become civilized. You got to take some debt on.
Loren Feldman:
We talked about this last week. Jay told us last week that he has always borrowed against his house. Paul, you’ve told us previously that you have not done that. That’s kind of the crux of what we’re talking about here. Frankly, I would love to do this without borrowing against my house.
Jay Goltz:
And I’m not sure you have to, because I don’t think you have the requirements. There’s not a right or wrong to this. It’s that I would rather borrow against my house and save my business and grow it than have the business go broke but know that the house isn’t being touched. So it’s a different mentality, and I believe my mentality is why my business has gotten to the size it is, but I am certainly not doing—well, I probably have been reckless in hindsight. But at the moment, I’ve gotten over the reckless thing. I’m not betting the house. I mean, I’ve got enough assets in the business that I’m not going to be losing my house, so it’s a balancing thing.
Dana White:
I think debt is translating for [Loren] as risk, and every entrepreneur needs to—
Loren Feldman:
Well, Dana, it depends on how long I follow your advice, how long I go without charging will determine how much debt I run into.
Dana White:
Are you comfortable with taking the risk? How long are you comfortable without charging?
Jay Goltz:
She’s got a great point about priming the pump some more. I think that’s a smart thing.
Paul Downs:
I kind of disagree with that, too. You guys have what? You said 5,600 [subscribers]?
Loren Feldman:
Yes.
Paul Downs:
Okay, so you’ve got it up? The first question I would ask is: What’s the trajectory on this? If you continue to do it exactly as you’re doing right now, would it continue to grow? Or have you plateaued? And the second thing is: What mechanisms have you established to hear from those people, so that if the content that you’ve been kicking out in this podcast are like, “They’re okay, and people like to listen to them for free, but if it could do X, it would be worth money to me,” that’s a question you want to be asking a lot of those people.
Loren Feldman:
That’s a great question, Paul.
Paul Downs:
Let me just finish. I don’t think you should be shy about charging right now, as long as you make it clear what people are buying, which is the continued existence and growth of this information channel, which is already, I think, unique, but with the opportunity to become even more unique and useful. If you had zero listeners, and you had to charge the very first person to sign up, that would be a tough lift. But you got here already. I wouldn’t undersell the possible commitment of the people who are already following you.
Loren Feldman:
I want to address something Paul said. One of the great lessons I learned working with you guys at the small business blog at The Times was that it wasn’t just about the content that we created. It was about the conversations that we created. Paul, you were especially good at this. You would occasionally just put up a post that said something like, “Here are the three problems I’m facing this week.” People would devote an inordinate amount of time to trying to help you with whatever problems you flagged.
Paul Downs:
And they did. I should just put that out there. I mean, we’ve left all the people who are going to listen to this podcast out of the conversation so far. Well, hey, to those people, I say, first of all, thank you, on behalf of Loren, for listening.
But second of all, my experience in The Times really changed my life, because it was the first time I had the opportunity to, first, access other points of view but, second, to get feedback. And that is incredibly valuable. Loren, if you can build a mechanism that allows people to, as much as possible, participate in that kind of experience, it’s definitely worth money.
Loren Feldman:
That would be part of what people would be paying for on Day One on one of these platforms. So for every newsletter, I could ask questions. Something comes up in a podcast where you guys are talking about the merits of borrowing against your house, we can start a conversation about that and people could weigh in. It would make this a much more interactive process and something that I think would make it much more valuable to people.
Jay Goltz:
So Dana, we didn’t ask you. How much were you expecting to pay for this?
Dana White:
Oh brother, about $10 a month.
Jay Goltz:
Okay.
Dana White:
Let me make a point. I’m not the baby, but I’m the youngest business owner here, and some of the people that I know who have listened to it, the content is something that they save for later. Not that they don’t listen right away, but it’s not necessarily affecting them today. A lot of the business owners that I talk to, they’re finding that the Morning Report [is], “Hey, guys, this is what’s going on out there,” and what’s going on out there isn’t necessarily affecting what’s happening right here.
My advice comes from the two cents that I’ve gotten from the business owners I know who read and listen, even from employees who read and listen. You have an opportunity for people who want to own a business to paint that picture and communicate on that level. You have an opportunity for people who have been in business one to five years, and so on. So that’s what I would like to see now that this is your baby, Loren, is crafting that message.
A lot of times when we’re listening to the people on the show, like Karen, William, Jay, and Paul, who have been in business for a long time, you all speak as if you’ve been in business for a long time, because you’ve been in business for a long time. And so sometimes, you’re not disconnected, you do remember, and you do talk about what it was like Day 17, but you’re removed from it. You’re no longer in it.
Jay Goltz:
So as far as Loren making a decision, I do believe that the number is between 10 and 20 dollars. In my mind, it’s clearly not $30.
Loren Feldman:
Let me clarify one thing that I think we may have blurred the lines on, which is that I do have the option of figuring out what people pay for and what remains free. The direction I’m leaning in at the moment is leaving the podcast free and available wherever people get podcasts while charging for the Morning Report. That’s a way of bringing in new people who will find the podcast on Apple or through Google or Spotify, but trying to convince them that the Morning Report is worth paying for at the same time.
Paul Downs:
How much would it cost to to finish out the website so that you could have some kind of interactive community? My favorite model is Reddit, because it allows for self-editing by the audience, in terms of the upvoting of the comments. But to me, that would be the thing to charge for.
Loren Feldman:
That was the original plan, and I certainly don’t disagree with that. It’s not a ton of money. It would certainly be less than $100,000. We had a deal to do it for about $60,000. I don’t know whether that would still be there or not.
Paul Downs:
Does Substack have any of those features to build a following? Do they also give you tools to build a community around it?
Loren Feldman:
Not in the same way we envisioned. We envisioned this website and designed it so that anybody who registers creates a profile page so people can learn about them and about their business. It requires people to register with their real name, to give a little information about their business, what industry you’re in, where you are, some sense of the size.
Then we were going to have forums, sort of like Slack channels by topic, by “hat,” so that, for example, during the crisis, when everybody was focused on figuring out what was going on with the PPP loans, we would have added a channel there, a forum where people could share information. I think that would have been incredibly valuable. That’s not available on Substack.
Jay Goltz:
I think this is where you can do a little research and don’t reinvent the wheel.
Loren Feldman:
Guys, I was planning on giving you a Morning Report News Quiz. But I was getting too much good information, listening to your suggestions, and we’ve kind of run out of time. I hope you’re all okay with that. [Groans]
But thank you for this. This has been a very different experience for me, having this conversation. I think it’s the first of many different experiences for me. I appreciate having all of you to call on. It’s been great getting to know you for years, and to know that you’re here asking what you can do to help is gonna, I think, help me get some sleep one of these nights.
Jay Goltz:
Okay, so the first thing you do now, before the world finds out that you’re not gainfully employed, is call your credit card company and get your limit raised. Little entrepreneur tip.
Loren Feldman:
That might end my marriage, but I’ll take it under advisement.
Jay Goltz:
Well, that’s assuming she knows about it.
Loren Feldman:
I want to thank you, Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and Dana White, more than ever. I really appreciate this.
Dana White:
Thank you, and congratulations on a new start. This is awesome.
Paul Downs:
You’re one of us now.
Loren Feldman:
When do you become an entrepreneur—when you start a business? Or when it actually is a business? Anybody?
Paul Downs:
You become an entrepreneur when you—
Jay Goltz:
—don’t have a paycheck on Friday.
Paul Downs:
Yeah, when you walk away from the paycheck.
Loren Feldman:
Guys, thank you very much. Have a great week.
