Start Up, Throw Up, and Grow Up

Introduction:

This week, Dana White drops a few surprises. When we began this podcast in 2020, Dana had two promising hair salons in Detroit that she’d named after her grandmother, Paralee Boyd. She had an innovative business model designed specifically for women with thick and curly hair. And she was on her way to winning a prestigious business plan competition. All of which presented her with a wide array of opportunities to consider. Would she continue to bootstrap? Would she franchise? Would she take on an investor? Would she open salons on military bases? But the pandemic hit her hard. Struggling to find both employees and customers, she eventually decided to close her Detroit locations and open a new one in Dallas, Texas, where she hoped the greater population density would help her make a fresh start. But in this episode, Dana tells Jay Goltz and Laura Zander that she’s come to a painful realization: “Paralee Boyd is not working.”

— Loren Feldman

Guests:

Dana White has been founder and CEO of Paralee Boyd.

Laura Zander is CEO of Jimmy Beans Wool.

Jay Goltz is CEO of The Goltz Group.

Producer:

Jess Thoubboron is founder of Blank Word.

Full Episode Transcript:

Loren Feldman:
Welcome Jay, Dana, and Laura. It’s great to have you all here—especially you, Dana. We haven’t spoken in quite some time. How are you doing?

Dana White:
I’m well, Loren. How are you?

Loren Feldman:
I’m great, thank you. What’s going on?

Dana White:
Umm… Let’s see. I’ve grown up.

Loren Feldman:
Wow. I didn’t know you needed to grow up.

Dana White:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. If you’re breathing, you need to grow. But I’ve really grown up. I’ve like Sequoia Redwood grown up.

Laura Zander:
Aww. In what way? What happened?

Dana White:
Well, it’s different for everybody, but for me, it’s looking around and being very honest about what’s working, what’s not working, and why it’s not working. And as much as I love Paralee Boyd, Paralee Boyd is not working.

Loren Feldman:
Wow.

Dana White:
And it’s not working because I have three major reasons. And this is pulling a page out of Jay’s book when you sit there and you have your list, right? One, Paralee Boyd isn’t working, because this is not what my market wants. My market wants wigs, weaves, dreads, braids. That’s what my market wants. And it’s not something you’re imagining. You can go to a major airport. You can go to a major city, which I was in. You can go anywhere, and most of the women who look like me are not wearing their hair like me.

Laura Zander:
Is that different than when you started?

Jay Goltz:
In Michigan.

Dana White:
Yes and no.

Laura Zander:
Well, New York is where the inspiration came from. Wasn’t it when you were in New York City?

Dana White:
Exactly. It was in 2010, ’11, ’12. Yes and no. Because these women are coming to the salons in between getting their wigs, weaves, and braids—and as they like to call them, “protective styles,” which is not really true. That’s the first thing, okay? The first thing is my market.

The second thing is staffing. I had to look at staffing as a reflection—not of Dana’s perspective, but from the mindset of my staff members. And Jay and I have had several conversations over the years where he’s put that into perspective. But I didn’t put all of those perspectives together to really truly understand who I was hiring. And, one, my employee base doesn’t fit the vision that I’m trying to make. They come to the interview, and they see Dana, and they put their best foot forward for Dana. Dana’s personable, Dana’s funny, Dana’s not the distant, aloof owner, you really can’t talk to her. Dana’s right there. And so they’re like, “Oh, my God, I’m inspired. I can be like that. I’m going to do my best.”

But that’s not what they can do. And so they present themselves very well in an interview, because I’m a reflection of them that they don’t see very often. And so they’re like, “I’m gonna do my best,” but they’re not really capable or willing to say, “Yeah, I’m limited.” So you’re wondering why you get these people who are applying, who are qualified, but they’re not able to do the job.

And the third thing is me. Paralee Boyd was born of a love for women who look like me, who were not being serviced in the marketplace. However, the service that they wanted was not the service of Dana—meaning: Dana, Paralee Boyd is a reflection of how you wear your hair, what you do for yourself. It’s not a reflection of what the majority of women do. Even in the name, the name has something to do with me, not my market. I thought it would resonate with my market, being an old southern name, but my market—

Loren Feldman:
Explain how you got the name.

Dana White:
It’s my grandmother’s name. And you thought that would resonate. But it doesn’t, because it’s a tongue twister. You have to give them things that are bite-sized so that you don’t have to pull their attention from whatever else they’re thinking about to patronize your business.

Laura Zander:
You’re talking about the consumers here? The attention span.

Dana White:
The consumers, and quite honestly, your staff. You have to make it bite-sized. And Dana isn’t bite-sized. Dana can hear a word, “Oh, that’s fine, right?” Dana’s a little different. And again, years ago, Jay and I had that conversation. I just didn’t put it all together. And I concluded that Paralee Boyd was more about me and what I wanted for my market, as opposed to my market and where they are. They’re not getting their hair done like that. They don’t want to do their hair like that. They want to get it done and not touch it for weeks at a time. You know, some do, some don’t. But most don’t.

If you were to walk out right now and go to an airport or go to a large Black metropolitan area, most women have wigs, weaves, dreads, braids, and protective styles. Very few of us are actually wearing our hair. Very few of us are actually getting blowouts every week or every other week. We’re just not doing it. And so, I tried to revolutionize an industry. And my dear friend who’s also a very successful business woman said, “Paralee Boyd is the best idea that none of us want, because we don’t have your level of hair freedom.”

She goes, “I’m a Black woman. I don’t just jump in a pool. Dana does and doesn’t think about it. Dana cuts her hair.” I just cut my hair a couple months ago. It was practically midway down my back. I cut it off. She goes, “I’m not saying we don’t do that. But we don’t do that en masse. That’s not the norm for us.” And so, she said, “Right now, I have a weave in my hair.” My other girlfriend said, “I have an eight piece in my hair, because I just don’t want to be bothered with it.” And that was it.

Jay Goltz:
So how much of this, though, was moving from Detroit to Texas? Because it was working at some point. Or has the market changed? Or is it both?

Dana White:
It was both. It was working, but it wasn’t working as well as it should have been from. And I am comparing myself to other salons, meaning, their monthly revenue compared to mine. It was doing okay. We weren’t ever making money. We weren’t making enough money to service the debt, and we weren’t making enough money to pay me consistently and comfortably.

Jay Goltz:
Can I just help you with that? I don’t think you meant that it “should” have been making it. I think you mean to say what you needed to make.

Dana White:
So Paralee Boyd is no more.

Jay Goltz:
Whoa.

Dana White:
There’s the product line. And that may go forward in other aspects, but as far as the actual walk-in only, seven-day-a-week hair salon, that is not happening at all.

Loren Feldman:
You had the salon in Dallas. When we started this podcast, you had two in Detroit. You moved to Dallas, and you opened there.

Dana White:
All done.

Loren Feldman:
That’s closed.

Dana White:
All of them. Done.

Jay Goltz:
And I assume, or not, that this wasn’t a case of, you start a new business, and it takes a couple years to get momentum. You’re confident that it just wasn’t going to happen?

Dana White:
Exactly. And so, I had hired someone down here, and it just kept getting worse and worse. And my problem is, I wasn’t edgy enough to be like, “Okay, next. Move on.” I kept accepting the excuses, the personal issues. And so, here’s what I will say: Paralee Boyd is done, but my military locations are not. Those are going to be a different brand, a different name, a different service. It is just all over different, but the good thing about that is that it has all of my knowledge and my edge.

I’ve been broke, I’ve been sad, I’ve been depressed, and I’m never going to let that happen again, because I’ve got a different business model. I’m not saying there won’t be issues. But that edge and—excuse me for saying so, Loren—but that bitch, she’s front and center. She’s still Dana, but quicker to fire you. Because I’m not going to be up worried about money because you can’t get pregnant, or whatever your issue is today that means, you can’t come to work. Okay, next. And I’m going to be constantly hiring. We’re never not hiring. We’re always hiring.

Jay Goltz:
There’s three stages of business: start up, throw up—you’ve been in throw up for a lot of years—and then grow up. And you’ve gotten to grow up. You realized what you’re doing is not working, and you’re figuring out what you need to do. So, yeah, I’ve gotta tell you, 20 years ago, I started a new thing on the side that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars. I look back, and I think, “What was I thinking?” But I figured it out, eventually. So I hope you’re not torturing yourself. Are you torturing yourself? “I shouldn’t have, I couldn’t have, I should have known better.” I don’t know that you could have known any of this. I just don’t know that you could—

Loren Feldman:
Let her answer.

Dana White:
Well, there’s been a lot of money put into this. There’s been a lot of money. And so, is it a bad idea? But in the three things that I’ve shared with you, yes. But it’s a salon on a military base with a captive audience, giving the people what they want, making it a viable business, setting the business model up. Instead of trying to revolutionize the industry, go with the industry and make money on a military base.

And then there are other ones that are slated. So there’s going to be… I don’t want to say a renewal. But the military option is still extremely viable. I’m on the phone with them all the time, and they’re still looking at me on other bases. So it’s still not like, “Oh, just one and done because it’s taking them forever and a day to open in Fort Bragg, or Fort Liberty.” But once that gets going, and now I have a new business model, pulling back, and meeting my staff where they are. What did you tell me, Jay, years ago? “Dana, when you were their age, you were making $150,000 a year.”

Jay Goltz:
Yeah, you had the big job. You know, the proof’s in the pudding. You had a big job making a lot of money, which says that you have skill-sets and a mentality or whatever that’s different than someone who makes $20 an hour. My problem was, I never even had that job. So it took me many years to figure out, “Gee, everybody doesn’t think like I think.” That took me 25 years to figure out, I’m sorry to say.

Dana White:
And so I’m projecting this business acumen on those who haven’t been in the same business environment that I’ve been in. So now when I’m hiring at Fort Liberty, I don’t have that same standard, because they’re not going to meet it. And can you blame them? Can you do hair? Can you come to work on time? Can you not look like you just rolled out of bed? Great, hired!

Laura Zander:
Well, going back to the making $150,000, when you were their age, do you ever think about just going back and making $150,000 a year and working nine-to-five?

Dana White:
I was miserable. I hated it.

Laura Zander:
And you’re happy now? [Laughter]

Dana White:
Well, I’m happier. Here’s the thing, Laura: I thought about it. I really did think about it. But the point is, that would require a lot of travel. That was over 10-15 years ago. I’m married now. I can’t just hop on a flight to Pakistan and be gone for two weeks. Do you know what I mean? Like, my lifestyle is different.

Laura Zander:
So it’s worth it. It’s worth it to make less so that you have a more flexible lifestyle.

Jay Goltz:
No, no, no! She’s not necessarily saying she’s gonna make less. It took me back a little bit, Laura, when you just asked that, because I just never think that way. Like, I’m an entrepreneur. This is what I do. In her case, she thinks she’s gonna make more money long-term, and I think she can. So this isn’t a matter of throwing in the towel. In five years, or three years, she could be making more than 150 grand, and pull it off.

Laura Zander:
Yeah, but she could also not. I mean, I think—

Jay Goltz:
Yes, well for you, that’s an option. For me that just never has been, in my head, at least.

Dana White:
Yeah, I would have let the military location go, too, if I didn’t think there was any viable way of doing it.

Laura Zander:
I think it’s interesting. You know, we think about it all the time. We’re like, “How much easier would life have been if we had just stayed as software engineers, and maybe good money?”

Dana White:
But there’s a reason why we left, and I went through my old journals, and I know why I left.

Laura Zander:
Well, there you go. Love that.

Loren Feldman:
That’s why it was a good question.

Laura Zander:
Exactly, Jay!

Jay Goltz:
I didn’t say it wasn’t a good question. I’m just suggesting we have three very different perspectives. Like, this has never crossed my mind in 45 years.

Laura Zander:
Well, you probably also never thought about just marrying somebody rich so that you don’t have to deal with it as well. I mean, or have you?

Jay Goltz:
No, but I’m thinking about it now that you put it in my head. Yeah, that would have been easier.

Laura Zander:
I’m telling you, once a week, at least, I’m like, “Shit, I should have married better.”

Loren Feldman:
Dana, I want to ask you about your original business model and what’s different about the new one that you’re going to use at the military base. Going back to the original business model, as I understood it—when we first started doing this podcast before the pandemic, when you had two locations in Detroit—you had a model that was based on the concept of moving your customers in and out as quickly as possible. And you won a lot of money at a business plan competition because of that model.

At the time, did you think you were trying to revolutionize this market and convince people to do something they hadn’t been doing? Or did you think you were responding to a need in the market that was established and that people were ready for?

Dana White:
Both. I was going after a need in the market. The tail end of that, that I didn’t realize, is that people weren’t ready for it. I thought I’d get them ready. And so I knew I was revolutionizing a market, because I knew there wasn’t hair freedom. I knew that when Black women go on vacation, they get—

Loren Feldman:
What do you mean—what’s hair freedom?

Dana White:
Black women go through things with regards to their hair, as far as prep, getting it ready. So when they go on vacation, a lot of them—especially if they’re going to a hot destination—they’ve got to go get it braided. Anything not to touch their hair, in case it gets wet, in case it gets sand in it. Whereas some of us don’t go through that. Because we just go. We don’t think about that.

I’ve never had a weave. I’ve never worn a wig. And so my girlfriend who does all the time, she said, “You have a hair freedom that I don’t. You touch your hair. I don’t. I don’t want to be bothered with it every day. I’ll go get a weave. I’ll wrap it at night and be done with it. It’s just different for me.” I don’t wrap my hair at night.

Jay Goltz:
So Dana, here’s what I want to know: Looking back, whatever, three years ago, do you think you were delusional?

Dana White:
I think I was hopeful.

Jay Goltz:
Okay, I was gonna say, it’s a thin line between optimistic and delusional. And I’m here to tell you, since I was talking to you a lot about it, I don’t think you were delusional. What you said made sense. Who knew? I’ve done stuff like that. I’ve done stuff that I’ve lost tons of money on that made perfect sense that it took me a long time to figure it out wasn’t going to work.

And in my case, I read a book about it. I’m hypomanic. I got into it, and I thought I was going to pull it off, and I let it go for way too long and lost lots of money that I didn’t need to lose, which is why I cringe when I hear people say, “Never, never, never quit.” They leave out the second half, which is, “unless in good judgment.” I should have thrown in the towel and moved on. I’m happy and proud of the fact you’re throwing in the towel on that. But you’ve got another plan that makes sense again, and I’m here to tell you: Welcome to entrepreneurship.

Dana White:
I’ve been long in the tooth about this, just thinking about you know, “Dana, what were you thinking? Were you delusional?” And I would have been delusional if I had kept putting money into a business that just two people a day… There was a boom. There was a time when there was good revenue. It’s just the market needed to get ready, and my girlfriends have told me the market is not going to be ready until Black women en masse just feel differently about their hair.

And so, the new business—the one on the military bases—is basically: Give the people what they want. And the good thing about me is, I know exactly what they want. I just wanted them to feel about themselves the way that I feel about them and the way I feel about myself. And that’s not always the case. Give the people what they want. So this salon is full-service. I mean we’re not doing nails or lashes, but we are cutting, coloring, sew-in, take out weave. And my stylists are independent contractors. The split is 70/30: 30 to them, 70 to the house. Why? Because I’m paying for marketing.

Jay Goltz:
Is that competitive? Is that what’s out there? Because that doesn’t sound too competitive.

Dana White:
It is. So, most salons that are doing well are 70/30. The ones that are struggling are 60/40.

Loren Feldman:
What were you in Dallas and Detroit?

Dana White:
I was hourly.

Loren Feldman:
So people got paid just for being there?

Dana White:
Just for being there.

Jay Goltz:
I just want to see how far you’re stretching this. Can Loren and I go get our hair cut at this place?

Dana White:
Probably not. It’s going to be women on a military base. We won’t be doing barbering, but we’ll still have the base Paralee Boyd services. But I’m hiring stylists who know how to cut hair, who are coming with a bulk of work, who will be able service the clients that I’m going to be marketing, who can do twist-outs, who can do certain braiding styles, who can do sew-ins.

And then let the decision stand. If people want to come multicultural, that would be great. But I can’t fight that hair is segregated. I can’t fight that when white women see three Black women doing hair, they say, “Oh, that salon’s not for me.” That’s them, I can’t fight that. All I can do is say yes. And then the few who do trust us to do it—which I don’t know why they wouldn’t—they just come.

And we’re projected to do very well. And that’s just on the numbers of just the inquiries alone, the people who are waiting for me to open. We’re projected to do very well. But guess what? Even if we don’t, 70 percent of the revenue comes to me. And I’m not paying triple net—rent is based on a percentage of my revenue. That’s it, 8 percent of my revenue, and that includes water, electricity, all that stuff. So that 70 percent is going to go to marketing, and my subscription services, and putting money back into the business. And then I’ll talk to Jay and say, “Jay, this is what I’m working with. How much of this should I pay myself?” That’s it. It’s a different business model.

Laura Zander:
Wow. When do you open?

Dana White:
Probably November.

Laura Zander:
That’s in a couple of weeks.

Dana White:
Yeah, I’m headed back down there next week. And then we’re taking all the stuff off the windows, we’ve got an electrician coming in and putting up a transformer for the chandelier. Like, we’re opening.

Laura Zander:
So what do you do about all the debt? You’d mentioned debt on Paralee Boyd. Do you just kind of roll that over?

Dana White:
I hope so. That’s why I’m going forward—it’s to pay the debt. It’s to pay it down. It’s not to escape it at all, but it’s to pay it down. And you have to have a financial model in your business that is conducive for that. And so, if your big two expenses—rent and payroll—are all under 35-40 percent, you have room for that, I think.

Jay Goltz:
Let me tell you what you had that is unusual for most of us: You have all these people with big names, throwing you money, giving you awards, telling you how wonderful you are. How could you not buy some of that? I certainly never had that. Laura, did you have that?

Laura Zander:
No.

Jay Goltz:
You’re really in an interesting situation where all these big names—wasn’t it like Goldman Sachs or something?

Dana White:
Ernst & Young. Goldman Sachs.

Jay Goltz:
You had these name people going, “Oh my God!” How could you not start to believe your own press? I mean, it made sense. You know, I’ll tell you what I think. There was nothing you were doing that didn’t make sense. Let’s just review. We thought the solution was you weren’t charging enough. You were in the wrong market. Okay, that made sense. But I didn’t know that hairstyles were different. And you obviously didn’t know it either, so oops, okay, you figured that out. So, I can’t say that anything you’re talking about now doesn’t make sense. You’re going to a place where the rent thing is great—it’s a percentage—and they need your services. And I believe you’re gonna pull that off.

Dana White:
So I was super nervous about telling you, Jay.

Jay Goltz:
You know what, you’re not whining. You’re not licking your wounds. You figured some stuff out. You’re forging on. Hats off to you. Like I said, I was your age, 21 years ago. I went ahead and decided I was going to change the framing industry by doing a marketing campaign to get 500 frame shops to market together and advertise together for a minimal amount of money.

And it made perfect sense to me. I just forgot that most picture farmers don’t think like I do. I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. But the point is, I let it go on for three or four years until I lost a zillion dollars, when I should have figured out after a year it wasn’t going to work.

Laura Zander:
That’s a great point. The skill is learning to pull the plug faster.

Jay Goltz:
Absolutely. And not feeling bad about it. Like, oops. It’s not about quitting. It’s about moving on.

Laura Zander:
Well, just to be clear, Dana, I’m assuming you did complain, and you did feel sad.

Jay Goltz:
Just not to me. [Laughter]

Laura Zander:
But you have to go through that process. I mean, now you’re on the other side of it. And you know, Jay and I always talk about Rocky. You’re gonna get the crap beat of you.

Jay Goltz:
I ain’t going down no more.

Dana White:
Nope. That’s not what happened at all. I have not felt bad at all. The only thing I felt is what you guys have mentioned is: What the hell took so long? My one friend said, “Oh my God. Aren’t you grieving? It’s a loss.” No, because it wasn’t serving me.

Laura Zander:
What about the franchising stuff? What are you doing with that?

Dana White:
There’s no business to franchise.

Jay Goltz:
Now, that part I will say, you purposely didn’t tell me about that. That one, I didn’t think was a great move. Those people just take your money and promise you the moon. Okay, I can’t say “good job” on that one. But the rest of it, you were trying a new thing that seemed to make sense at the time.

Dana White:
A lot of people, like my girlfriend, are like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry.” This, that, and the other, and I think that goes to part of it. I didn’t believe my hype. So that would be a part of that grieving. This is who I was supposed to be, and now I’m not. That wasn’t on the table. It was no longer serving me. So I had no problem saying, “You know what? Done. Now let’s move on to something that will serve me and move on in life.”

Loren Feldman:
Dana, back to your new business model, I am guessing you’re not going to be able to turn over your customers as quickly. I’m wondering if there’s an impact on your pricing, now that you’re on a military base versus in a city? How are you thinking about those things?

Dana White:
Yep, great questions. For certain services, you aren’t going to be able to turn them over as quickly. My concern, and when I’m interviewing, is asking them: How long does it take? And because we’re expected to get bookings, keeping people waiting—that’s something I talk about with the people I interview—”This is not what we’re going to do. Let me know the allotted time so we can put it in our system, and then that’s what you have to operate in.” And so it’s gonna be very collaborative with the stylist. But if it’s five hours for something that should take three, then that’s a conversation. And then that’s a conversation with the manager. That’s a conversation with the stylist saying, “Okay, what’s going on?”

I don’t think that’ll be a problem. Why? Because these girls aren’t booth rent. Booth rent, as long as they turn their money in every week, they’re fine. No, these women, and maybe some men, they get 30 percent for every head they do. So doing one head that takes five hours, and you’re only here for six? You’re cutting into your money. So they want to get people in and out. Or they want to get those higher tickets of wigs and weaves, sew-ins, or braids, or whatever. Because those are going to take longer, but it’s a higher ticket price. So as long as the money and the time match, then we’ll be fine.

Jay Goltz:
What’s the name gonna be?

Dana White:
I’m gonna withhold that until I open.

Jay Goltz:
Maybe it’s gonna be called Dana Unplugged.

Dana White:
No, not at all.

Loren Feldman:
Is there anything keeping you from opening at this point?

Dana White:
Just staffing. And again, it’s so frustrating with the military. “Yep, I’ll have an email for you tomorrow.” Two weeks goes by. And so you’re following up with them. So right now, they were adamant for the whole time I’ve been in talks with them: “No cameras in your salon.” Told me yesterday, “Oh, yeah, you can have cameras in your salon.” I pulled up all the emails: No cameras, due to security, 82nd Airborne Division. No cameras. And so she’s like, “Well, I’ll just email you what the compatibility has to be.”

The other hiccup is finding internet. Internet in a town like Fayetteville is not easy to come by. And so what it is, it’s really poor, really bad internet, so to speak. So it’s just these little itty-bitty things. Right now, if I had a stylist, she could be in there doing hair. She won’t have internet, but everything is built out.

Loren Feldman:
I’m trying to picture this: You’re on a military base, and Internet is a problem? That seems surprising.

Dana White:
No, internet is a problem.

Loren Feldman:
You’re in kind of a shopping mall on the base, right?

Dana White:
Exactly. And everybody has a different internet provider. And they all complain. The only person in that mall that doesn’t have an internet provider is Starbucks, and Starbucks provides its own internet. It’s a mess.

Loren Feldman:
Are you concerned about the impact of dealing with the military going forward on your operations?

Dana White:
And I’ve talked to them. I was, but a lot of this is hyperlocal. A lot of this is the team at that base. Because I said, “Here are the challenges I’ve run into. Here are the other bases that you want me to go to. How many of these challenges are system-wide?” And they said, “None of them.” And I said, “Okay, we’ll see.” But if they are, I know so much more now. That’s why I said I’ve grown up.

Loren Feldman:
Dana, I think you said before that you’ve been broke, and it sounds like you haven’t had a salon up and running for a while now. Have you been doing anything else to support yourself?

Dana White:
I have. I have. So in March, we lost a family member. She passed away March 13th, and she had only pursued her retirement dream for one year. She’d only been retired for one year.

And so I knew that there were some things that I wanted to do after I retired from owning this business. I didn’t know if I was gonna sell it. I didn’t know what I was going to do. But I said, “You know what? Once that’s here, I’m going to do this.” Well, in March of this year, it occurred to me that, “Well, you know what? You may only get 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, years. You may not have 15 years in retirement.” And so I decided to pursue what I wanted to do, and I have become a flight attendant for a major mainline airline.

Laura Zander:
Boom!

Loren Feldman:
Wow.

Dana White:
Boom! A major mainline airline. And it’s the best-kept employment secret. I can’t believe what they throw at their employees, as far as money and benefits. And so, okay, I don’t feel good, because I caught a cold in Paris. My husband and I just got back from Paris the other day.

Jay Goltz:
Is there an age limit for that job?

Dana White:
Absolutely not.

Jay Goltz:
Oh, you’ll tell me offline.

Loren Feldman:
What did you have to do to get this job? [Laughter]

Dana White:
Right, right. Who do you know? No, I mean, it was a grueling training. Let’s be very honest. It was very tough. The FAA does not play. I can travel in the United States, what is considered the domestic continental—that’s Hawaii, Alaska, certain parts of Mexico, Canada—for free. No money. Just, “Hey, Loren. You want to have lunch? All right, well, I can be there tomorrow by two o’clock.” “Hey, Jay, let’s go to lunch.”

Loren Feldman:
But you do have to work, too. Right?

Dana White:
You do. But it’s not what you think. I don’t work more than, what… 80 hours a month?

Loren Feldman:
What’s a typical week? You fly where, and how long does it take?

Dana White:
So I have a preference that all of my layovers be in Dallas, so I can come home. So I fly to base. I get a layover in Dallas. I come home, and I’m being paid this entire time. Then I go back to the airport. I go out to another city, come back to Dallas, layover at home, then go out to another city, and then go up to base and fly home. Done.

I’ve been to Amsterdam, I’ve been to Paris. I’ve been to Lisbon. I’ve been in Munich. I’m going to London and Milan. And I choose these trips. I pick them up. “Oh, I’ll go here.” Boom. And you just put it on your schedule. And you can fly as little or as much as you want, with a guarantee of 11 days off a month. Guaranteed.

Loren Feldman:
And your thinking is that this is something that you might want to pursue after your entrepreneurial career?

Dana White:
I thought so until she died. She died, and I said, “Yeah, no, I’m doing it now.” And so I’m managing very well. So next week, I don’t bulk up on my flights when I need to be in North Carolina.

Loren Feldman:
Which is where Ford Liberty is, which used to be called Fort Bragg.

Loren Feldman:
So how much do you expect to keep doing this, once your salon is up and running and you’re thinking about opening another on another military base?

Dana White:
I’m gonna go down to the minimum hours of flying that we need to get flight and health care benefits. Because the health care benefits are ridiculously stupid. I can’t believe they pay you to take benefits. Care for my dog, when we go fly, it’s paid for. Parking at the airport is free.

Jay Goltz:
Okay, I can understand the free parking at the airport. But it surprises me that they’re gonna pay to babysit your dog.

Dana White:
They pay to take care of your dog and any parents or children you have living in your home so you can fly. They remove every obstacle for you getting the work.

Laura Zander:
So this is why my flight prices are so freakin’ high right now, huh? Well, I’m going back to the: Why am I dealing with all this stress when I could just go be a flight attendant?

Jay Goltz:
Okay, I’m not thinking that at all. I’m just thinking: Wow, who knew?

Dana White:
I’m scrappy. I’m scrappy. I’ll do whatever I have to do. During COVID, I delivered for Amazon. I’m scrappy. I’m not proud. I don’t believe my hype. You know what I mean? I’ll do whatever. I did Amazon Flex for months during COVID, in my G6, delivering packages to people’s door. But the priority is getting open and getting these people in this space to do what they say they’re going to do when they say they’re going to do it.

Loren Feldman:
Dana, did you pause at all on this. Taking another job, did it feel like quitting to you? Did it make you think that you might not have the energy to put into the business you’re trying to build?

Dana White:
Not at all. And I would have felt that way if the salon needed me to be there. With the new business model, it doesn’t. The barbershop owners live in Hawaii. They’re never there. Now, will I be there twice a month? Sure. And that’s separate than me flying for a mainline. But I have a career at this mainline that allows for that. I don’t have to report in. I could take a whole month off if I wanted to and not fly at all.

Laura Zander:
When we bought the Madeleinetosh business in Texas, I had basically planned to be there three out of four weeks for the first three months, at least, to get things running, just to be there. Do you kind of have the same thought process?

Dana White:
Yep. But carefully, though. I’ve gotta be very careful. Because when they meet the owner, they go a little crazy. I’m gonna be there. But again, these are independent contractors. I’m pretty much gonna be there to make sure you don’t look crazy and that you’re doing good hair.

Laura Zander:
You’re gonna hire one manager, one salaried person, to run the whole thing, though?

Dana White:
Yes, but not right away. That’s why I’m gonna be there more.

Laura Zander:
Oh, got it. That makes sense.

Dana White:
Once I’m very clear on what the manager is going to do—and I hate to say it, and Jay, you might think I’m wrong for this—but as soon as I hire her, I’m prepared to fire her. Just that simple. I’m not gonna hire her and be like, “Oh, this is my manager forever.” No, I’ll probably fire you in six months if you don’t prove me wrong.

Jay Goltz:
Okay, now, why would you think I would disagree with that? I would think you should keep someone around who can’t do the job?

Dana White:
No, no, just because I didn’t want you to think I wasn’t being optimistic.

Jay Goltz:
No, listen, you never know when you get hiring. You do the best you can, and hopefully you get good at it. And 80 percent of the time it works out, but 20 percent of the time it doesn’t.

Dana White:
But Jay, here’s why I was nervous about telling you—not because I felt you were going to be like, “Dana, what are you thinking? You’re dumb. This is dumb.” It was just that… this is a switch, a growth moment, that I hope our mentor-mentee relationship can ride through.

When I was Paralee Boyd, riding high, you hear from everybody. And when you’re Paralee Boyd, you know, “Okay, this has got to stop,” a lot of their identity to me was based on that. And I know ours wasn’t, because we talked about so many other things. But when you’re making a big life change and you’re growing up, and you respect Laura and Loren—I mean, don’t get me wrong, you guys. I was nervous about telling you, too. [Laughter]

Jay Goltz:
Just not as nervous.

Dana White:
You know, I thought Laura might be, “Oh, she’s not in this with me anymore. She doesn’t know. Done.” I thought Loren would be, “You know, she doesn’t really have any more added-value content for the podcast anymore. Don’t really need to talk to her.” Right? These are all the things that went through my mind, and that I accepted. And same thing with Jay. I was like, you know, “Jay might be like, ‘You know what? She’s not Paralee Boyd anymore.’”

I knew you guys were going to be proud of the transition, but what I hope you’ll find is that as I grow up, and you continue to watch me grow up, watch the military locations unroll, and you watch the product line on these bases go. Then you’ll say, “Okay, great.” That’s it.

Loren Feldman:
All right. Well, we are out of time. On that note, my thanks to Jay Goltz, Dana White, and Laura Zander—and to our sponsor, the Great Game of Business, which helps businesses use an open-book management system to build healthier companies. You can learn more at greatgame.com.

Dana, thanks for sharing all this with us. Obviously, we do want to keep talking to you. And we want to hear how it’s going—except when you’re in Paris.

Laura Zander:
Yeah, I don’t want to know.

Loren Feldman:
Thanks, everybody.