Latest podcast episodes
Episode 105: The Anchor Price
The Anchor Price
TIME TO LISTEN: 56:12

This week, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Liz Picarazzi talk pricing, specifically how they use an anchor price—the first number they offer prospective customers. Do they anchor low to avoid scaring anyone away? Or do they anchor high to disqualify unlikely buyers and to make the actual sale price feel more comfortable? Plus: Liz explains the remarkable, dream-come-true, my-product-in-Times Square PR gift she just received. Of course, this is entrepreneurship, so even when dreams come true, there tend to be complications. Liz’s business is getting a wave of publicity at a time when her fabricator in Shanghai has been locked down for almost four weeks. She’s talking to domestic fabricators as well, but they, too, will be dependent on raw materials that have to come from China. It’s a problem, she tells us.

Do You Really Want That Shiny Object?
TIME TO LISTEN: 41:43

This week, Laura Zander tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz about her eight-month roller coaster ride pursuing an acquisition. The deal would bring a new brand and profitable revenue at a reasonable price. To Laura, the creative challenge and opportunity are exciting—“really, really exciting”—but the financials are a concern. “Do I do this?” she asks. “Is it worth it?” And then there’s the broker, whose numbers don’t add up and who wants to collect his fee—including his piece of the earnout—immediately. Plus: Shawn explains how the rise of inexpensive design contractors forced his company to become a better business.

Do You Take Money off the Table?
TIME TO LISTEN: 48:11

This week, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Jay Goltz discuss their philosophies about taking money off the table vs. reinvesting it in the business. Of course, you can’t take money off the table unless there’s money on the table. Paul tells us that he once calculated his average earnings for his first 22 years in business and they came to about $11 an hour. But he now expects to make more money in the next five years than he did in the previous 35. We also talk about content marketing, direct mail, and trade shows. Plus: Was the Paycheck Protection Program, despite the billions of dollars in fraud, a success?

Bonus Episode: The Marketing Magic of Answering Customer Questions
TIME TO LISTEN: 42:08

This week, in a special bonus episode, Marcus Sheridan talks about the revolutionary strategy that he used to save his pool-building business during the Great Recession and that he’s been sharing ever since. That strategy is to volunteer answers to the questions your customers always ask—especially the questions you’ve been taught not to answer, at least not until you absolutely have to, such as those about pricing and potential problems with your product or service and who your best competitors might be. In this conversation, Sheridan also explains how to implement a content marketing strategy, why he isn’t a big proponent of social media, and what most business owners get wrong about marketing.

What If I Get the Contract?
TIME TO LISTEN: 40:08

This week, Liz Picarazzi tells Jay Goltz that she’s pursuing multiple sales opportunities—and ponders what would happen if those opportunities actually came to fruition. Would her company, Citibin, be able to handle the additional volume? “In my fantasy world, where I am a lot,” Liz says, “I look at where this could go. And just like you, Jay, I go to, ‘How in the world would I produce all of these?’” Liz and Jay also talk about the pros and cons of pricing transparency: Do you volunteer your premium price up front? On your website even? Or do you wait until you’ve made your sales pitch and gotten your customer excited? Plus: we indulge a little further discussion on the merits of the 21 Hats brand.

Never miss a 21 Hats Podcast episode
Why I Sold 21 Hats
TIME TO LISTEN: 43:34

This week, in episode 101, the tables are turned, as I announce that I have sold 21 Hats and then take questions from Shawn Busse, Karen Clark Cole, and Jay Goltz. The buyer is Toby Scammell, founder of Womply, which provides software services to small businesses and helped more than a million of them obtain Paycheck Protection Program loans. I will continue as editor-in-chief, but much of what the sale will mean for 21 Hats has yet to be determined—including, for example, and as we discuss here, whether we will keep the 21 Hats name. Meanwhile, Shawn, Karen, and Jay also talk about how Karen solves problems for her big tech clients and what smaller businesses can learn from her process. And Jay explains a change he’s making to his 401(k) plan that he believes will make it fairer for all of his employees.

We Are Survivors
TIME TO LISTEN: 47:55

This week, in episode 100, two years after the pandemic first hit, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and Liz Picarazzi talk about what they’ve learned, what they’re doing differently, and whether their businesses have gotten weaker or stronger. Leading up to the pandemic, Shawn—still carrying scars from the Great Recession—did a series of workshops on how to prepare for the next recession. “And so in that regard,” he tells us, “we were really well prepared” for the pandemic. Plus: public companies are increasing prices aggressively and then bragging on earnings calls about the extra profits those increases are generating. Is there a lesson in this for privately-owned businesses? Also: Why does Jay seem more invested in his picture frame business than in his home furnishings business?

We Tried That Brand Thing. It Didn't Work.
TIME TO LISTEN: 49:06

This week, in episode 99, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Jay Goltz talk about the tendency of many businesses to obsess about their logo, their website, and the need to drive more leads. To which Shawn suggests concentrating first on customer experience. And Jay agrees: “It's better business,” he says, “to make your customers happier than to keep trying to find new customers.” But Paul has his doubts: “You can have your internal house in order, as I do,” he says. “And you can have a great website, as I do. But it's not driving new business to us at the moment.” Plus: Shawn, Paul, and Jay react to recently publicized strategies to address the labor shortage, such as giving out raises more than once a year and encouraging new employees to take a vacation before they start work.

Somebody’s Hiring All of These People

This week, in episode 98, Jay Goltz tells Liz Picarazzi and Laura Zander that he’s had a revelation about The Great Resignation. Yes, he’s lost some people, but not necessarily his best people. “It shook the tree out,” he says, which is why he thinks businesses should be careful right now about hiring too quickly. Meanwhile, Liz talks about her latest product, a bear-proof trash enclosure, and why introducing it has been challenging. And Laura tells us what happened with the salesman she tried to send around the country in a souped-up van. Plus: Is this a great time or a terrible time to be in business?

We Don’t Have a Brand
TIME TO LISTEN: 1:05:19

This week, in episode 97, Paul Downs talks about why furniture makers traditionally have not stamped their names prominently on their work—and why he’s rethinking that now. That change of heart is the direct result of Paul’s unlikely experience connecting two very different businesses: One a Mennonite company manned by master craftsmen, and the other a startup manned by tattooed hipsters with a mastery of Kickstarter. Not only has the resulting culture clash changed the way Paul thinks about his own business, it’s also the subject of a book he’s writing. In this conversation, Paul explains what he’s up to and also talks about how close his business came to failing, how he plans to double his revenue, why he’s thinking about trying TikTok, and how he feels about his son’s success in the alternative reality of venture-backed startups.

We would love to hear from you
Ask us anything
Or suggest a topic for a podcast, an interview or a blog post