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Episode 217: ‘Things Are Going to Suck’
'Things Are Going to Suck’

This week, Laura Zander tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz about her approach to buying businesses. Laura says she simply recognizes that for a period of time, life will be miserable for her and for her team. That’s what happened almost a year ago when she bought two businesses that were a challenge to integrate. And now, just as things have calmed down a bit, she expects it to happen again as she eyes another acquisition. It’s also what she expects to happen as she and her husband Doug proceed with their ongoing migration to Shopify. “Our sales are going to go down,” says Laura. “SEO is going to be rough. My biggest concern, honestly, is Doug's mental health. This whole process has been so stressful for him.” Shawn, Jay, and Laura also discuss how they feel about the possibility that the 20-percent Qualified Business Income deduction could go away next year, when it’s set to expire. You might be surprised by their answers.

When to Pull the Plug, When to Pull the Trigger
TIME TO LISTEN: 55:57

This week, Mel Gravely, Jennifer Kehrin, and Liz Picarazzi start out talking about the pain of being fired by a long-time client. “It still stings,” says Jennifer, who nonetheless surprised her team by writing a note of congratulations to the CEO of the company that took the business. The conversation moves on to the tradeoff that comes with deciding between promoting managers from within or hiring them from outside the organization: What if your people aren’t ready? What if the outsiders have more experience but aren’t as good a fit? And that leads to a discussion of how to decide when to press on with a venture that’s struggling—and when to give up on it. Not surprisingly, all three owners have some experience in this area. Of course, they also have experience with deciding when to start a business, but they have very different attitudes about risk. While Mel says he’s pretty much always ready to go, Jennifer tells us she’s been noodling on an idea she really wants to pursue for about five years.

‘Being Civilized Ain’t Gonna Do It’

This week, Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz talk about the trendy job interview strategy of trying to get beyond canned responses by asking candidates unexpected questions along the lines of, “If you were a superhero, what powers would you have and why?” Or, “What animal best represents you as a person?” Not surprisingly, Jay isn’t a big fan of those questions, and he offers an alternative strategy that features four questions of his own design. Shawn does like to ask unexpected questions, but specifically those that help him figure out whether a candidate is likely to work well with others. Plus: Shawn talks about what it was like attending the recent going-out-of-business sale of a company he had declined to take on as a client three separate times. Also, Shawn and Jay respond to a Reddit post, where a business owner asks what he can do about a large commercial client who simply refuses to pay a $40,000 bill. “Did I just learn a $40,000 lesson?” the devastated owner asks. “What now?”

Should I Buy the Family Business?
TIME TO LISTEN: 40:56

This week, we bring you another Entrepreneurial Fish Bowl with Chris Hutchinson of Trebuchet Group. As you may remember, this is a virtual exercise where we offer a business owner—or in this case a potential business owner—the opportunity to pose a challenge he or she is facing to a group of owners and entrepreneurs from the 21 Hats community as part of a brainstorming session. In this case, it was BaLeigh Waldrop who explained why she has mixed feelings about taking over the Miller Waldrop furniture business that her parents own. As you’ll hear, BaLeigh has some real concerns: the business has been down of late, it’s predominantly brick-and-mortar, and she would have to work out an ownership structure with a younger brother. The 21 Hats brainstormers some good questions, including whether the business is profitable, whether it’s been paying family members a market wage, and whether it owns the real estate. They also offer a lot of smart suggestions. Plus: it all ends with a very surprising offer from Jay Goltz.

Why You Should Run Your Business on EOS (Or Not)
TIME TO LISTEN: 50:23

This week, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Laura Zander call on their own experiences to assess whether the EOS operating system—as explained in Gino Wickman’s book Traction—lives up to its promise of freeing owners from frustration, helping them put the right people in the right seats, and generating all of the scale they want. Laura hired an implementer to install EOS in her business years ago. Paul took more of a do-it-yourself approach, picking and choosing from the book’s suggestions. And while Shawn hasn’t tried EOS in his own business, he has seen how it works in lots of client businesses. As a result, all three have strong opinions about what types of owners and what types of businesses are likely to do best with EOS. Laura, for example, tells us: “I think it's helpful for people like me 10 years ago, who just don't know what they're doing.”

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We Have More Work Than We Can Handle
TIME TO LISTEN: 50:01

This week, Paul Downs, Jaci Russo, and Sarah Segal talk about how and when they start planning for next year. And here’s one happy challenge they’ve all confronted: What do they do when they don’t have the capacity to handle all of the work that’s coming their way? Do they staff up? If so, what happens if the work subsequently falls off? Do they create a backlog? Do they miss deadlines? Do they raise prices? Plus: Jaci shares an AI tool she’s been using to learn more about the decision makers her agency targets. And the three owners respond to a case study in ADA-compliance litigation taken from a Reddit post: “What are we supposed to do about this?” a business owner who has been sued for having a non-compliant website writes in the post. “I am trying not to overreact, but having my savings and my income taken from me this way is just devastating.” Jaci, whose agency builds websites, says there is a way to protect against those lawsuits.

Is This the Succession Plan For You?

This week, Jay Goltz and special guests Peter Koehler and Jimmy Kalb discuss the hottest new thing in succession planning. You may recall that earlier this year Peter was a guest on an episode in which he explained how he helped Laura Anderson sell her seafood restaurant to what’s known as an employee ownership trust or a perpetual purpose trust. Both Jay and Jimmy listened to that episode and were intrigued. Both had questions for Peter. So we recorded a conversation in which we discuss what makes a business a good candidate for trust ownership. The issues we address include: Is this only for businesses that have a save-the-world type of purpose? How much does it cost to create an ownership trust? Can owners sell to a trust and still run the business as they wish? And perhaps the biggest question of all: What can go wrong?

How to SAVE a Customer
TIME TO LISTEN: 42:12

This week, Jay Goltz, Jaci Russo, and Jennifer Kerhin discuss some of the systems they’ve created that have made their businesses successful. Jay established a process that helps employees diffuse conflicts with angry customers. Jaci has a process that tracks the performance of her agency’s lead-generation efforts and has helped her target clients more precisely. And Jennifer recently created a process to deal with change orders that makes it easier to walk the line between offending customers and forfeiting profits. Plus: We follow up on some issues we’ve discussed in previous episodes. Jay told us recently that he’s cutting back on his advertising spend. Is that the best response to a softening market? Jennifer told us when she first joined the podcast about her long march through what is often called the valley of death. Is she still in the valley of death? And Jaci told us at the beginning of the year that she had two big clients that were ready to sign on. Did they in fact sign on?

Best of: Turning a Failing Nut Shop into Nuts.com
TIME TO LISTEN: 51:51

This week, I’m replaying an oldie but goodie, an episode that Shawn Busse and I recorded with Jeff Braverman, who turned his family’s failing retail business into a thriving ecommerce business. I’m replaying this episode both because Jeff has a great story to share, with lots of takeaways, and because—well, actually, because I took a little time off last week. But listen to this: Jeff walked away from a career as an investment banker and went to work in the family’s nut store, the Newark Nut Company. “My dad and my uncle told me I was nuts,” says Jeff, but he made them an offer they couldn’t refuse. He would put the family’s snacks online—this was way back in the early dotcom days—and they wouldn’t have to pay him unless he actually sold some nuts. As it turned out, Jeff’s little internet play wound up unleashing explosive growth and consumed the business. And despite being a former investment banker, he managed to do that without taking any outside capital. Since we first published this episode Jeff has promoted himself from Chief Nut to Chair Nut.

Can We All Be Purple Cows?
TIME TO LISTEN: 41:41

This week, Shawn Busse, Jaci Russo, and Jay Goltz discuss what it takes to stand out these days, especially if your business—like most businesses—isn’t exactly the Next Big Thing. What about trash collection? What if your business is selling scrap metal? What if you happen to be one of 69 picture framers in Chicago? What’s an owner to do to stand out then? Is it enough to execute really well? Can any business make itself remarkable? Shawn, Jay, and Jaci all believe it’s possible, and they offer examples from their own businesses as well as those they’ve observed. Plus: As Google waffles about whether it’s going to kill cookies on Chrome, will business owners still be able to target customers digitally? And Jay’s not happy about a very big bill he got from his accounting firm. Should he just go ahead and pay it?

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